KIT MILLS: Sit on my chair, like this?
KELSEY ALPAIO: Yeah.
KIT MILLS: I'm on my toes.
But my back is braced against the back of the chair.
And something about this--
the gravity of this position makes it easier
for me to feel like I'm really attacking
the thing that I'm making.
KELSEY ALPAIO: That's Kit Mills.
He's a professional illustrator and comic artist.
And like him, I also do my best work
while sitting like a gargoyle.
In this episode, Kit and I break down
what it actually takes to be a professional illustrator.
KIT MILLS: It can be a delicate balance
between whether they wanted you specifically
because of some personal spirit that you are bringing
to the piece or if they hired you because you are
a pair of hands and can draw.
KELSEY ALPAIO: What does it actually
take to be a professional artist?
KIT MILLS: I love that it's basically
problem-solving with pictures.
Each project is different.
And there is a different goal and type
of communication involved in each thing that I do.
KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit specializes in illustration.
And full disclosure-- Ascend has commissioned him
to do some work for us before.
Let's throw it up on the screen.
So you wake up in the morning.
It's time to work.
What does your day look like?
Spell it out for me.
KIT MILLS: I focus best if I have
done some kind of physical activity
before I start working.
So I like to go for a little walk around the block
or do some yoga or something just to get my blood flowing
and make sure that my brain is functioning properly.
Unfortunately, I usually sit on the couch,
like a little gargoyle, and sketch away with my knees up
and hunched over in probably the worst posture position
I allow myself to indulge in.
I like to work from 8:00 to noon or 8:00 to 1:00.
And then I take a break in the afternoon
because, for some reason, my brain just
can't focus for a couple of hours in the afternoon.
But then, like a magic switch, 4:00 PM rolls around.
And then suddenly, I'm focused again.
I can think.
I'm ready and raring to go.
KELSEY ALPAIO: As a freelancer, he's not only
doing the illustration work.
He's also doing all of the project management.
So yes, art has deadlines, workflows, feedback.
KIT MILLS: I'll have an initial interaction
with a client where they give me a brief on what sort of thing
that they're looking for, what the turnaround
time is like, what their budget is for the project.
And I negotiate around all of those things
on what I'm capable of doing, how much I want.
After we have our initial agreement and contracts
are signed and everything, we--
I will do some initial sketches or designs
for what I think that the project should look.
And then the client will look at them and be like, I number 2,
or I don't any of these, please start again.
[LAUGHING]
And so then I take that and I do a more worked out sketch type
thing.
And then we take it incrementally from there.
KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit went to Syracuse University
and studied illustration there.
But an age-old question here--
do you need a degree in art to be successful in this field?
KIT MILLS: Honestly, no.
I don't think so.
No client has ever asked me if I have a degree, where I went
to school, or what my GPA was.
No one cares as long as you can produce good work
and you are reliable.
That said, I learned a lot from getting a degree,
learned a lot about technique and about working
and about discipline.
So if you have other ways of obtaining
those things in your life, I don't think that is necessary.
KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit said he only ever went to one class
about the business side of illustration
and he learned the rest of it just through trial and error
in the early days of his career.
KIT MILLS: We didn't really learn very much
about what it's like to actually interact with clients,
how to get jobs, how to advocate for yourself,
how to negotiate-- undersold myself
a lot until I figured out how unsustainable
as a practice that is.
I think I should have--
I probably tried to--
earlier in my career, tried to build
more of a community for myself out
of fellow professional creative workers because when I started,
I had friends who made art, but no
one who was really working as an illustrator the way
that I was or was trying to.
And so I didn't really have anyone
to ask for advice on that kind of thing.
But I do now.
And that is super valuable.
KELSEY ALPAIO: How should you go about valuing your work,
especially when you're just getting started?
And what have you found helpful for you
as you've grown throughout your career?
KIT MILLS: There is actually a decent formula
that you can use in order to figure out how much you
should be charging hourly.
KELSEY ALPAIO: There's a way to calculate this?
KIT MILLS: Oh my god.
[LAUGHING]
I know that there is a stereotype about artists
not being good at math.
And I am sad to say, but I--
they're right in there.
So you think about how much money
you would like to make in a year and think about how many hours
per week you would like to work or find
is a reasonable amount to work.
So let's go with 40.
And you multiply that by 50 for the number of weeks in the year
that you'll probably be working because you
should take some time out for sick days and vacations.
Just be kind to yourself.
If you multiply that, that comes to 2,000 hours
of working per year.
So if you divide your yearly earnings goal--
so let's say $60,000-- by that, you get about $30 an hour.
You should also-- $30 is pretty low, honestly.
I usually start at least $50 an hour.
Often, clients will want to buy the commercial rights
to your artwork, which means that they
can use it and reproduce it as they see fit.
You should charge a lot more for that, at least twice.
KELSEY ALPAIO: You've brought up this concept of advocating
for yourself a few times.
Can you talk about, first of all,
what that means in this industry and, second of all,
how do you go about actually doing that?
KIT MILLS: Yeah.
So it all comes down to self-respect.
[LAUGHING]
So if you are negotiating with a client
and they quote you a rate that is much lower than the figure
that you're looking for, push back on it.
Don't just accept what they're offering you.
I think most people forget that negotiation
is and should be a part of all of these contract agreements.
KELSEY ALPAIO: How do you go about getting jobs
and attracting new clients?
KIT MILLS: I have gotten most of my jobs
through networking, which networking
is less of a formal structure than people think of it.
I don't really go to networking events and hobnob with people
and be like, I'm an illustrator looking for work.
Networking is basically about making friends
in your field, people that you actually genuinely enjoy
being around and enjoy having conversations
with about your work and about your perspectives
as creative workers.
And if your friends are working, chances they
are working with clients who have other gigs that they
need to give to people.
And so if you are friends with people who are working,
they will pass the jobs on to you.
KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit works for the clients that he takes on.
But he's also his own boss.
He doesn't go into an office.
He doesn't report to anyone.
He sets his own hours, which means that it's up to him
to stay accountable and to make sure he makes his deadlines.
So what's it like to manage yourself?
KIT MILLS: The thing that I immediately
thought of when you asked that was
remembering to take care of yourself
and take care of your body.
There's a culture of procrastination
and then crunching when it's time for a deadline
to happen and time to get all your stuff in and finish
and ready for the client.
And I think that cyclical procrastination and crunch work
style is very harmful.
It's easy to forget to take breaks and actually take
care of your body.
I'm in my 30s.
I physically can't draw for as long as I could when I was 25.
My back hurts.
My hand hurts.
I have to take breaks and stretch.
So if you start doing those now, when you're young,
that will put some great practices in place for you
when you're older and starting to get creaky.
[LAUGHING]
KELSEY ALPAIO: Art is, obviously,
something that you're very passionate about.
How do you avoid that burnout when
your work is your passion, when you are creating and using
your creativity to--
as a job?
How do you then use your creativity
after hours for yourself and for your passion?
KIT MILLS: That's a tough one.
And I think about it a lot.
I've definitely gotten better at managing that kind of thing
in the last couple of years.
I do a lot of sketching and making art
and then not showing it to anyone,
which I think is really helpful for reminding yourself
that the creative impulse is for you
and not worrying about what other people think about when
they look at your work, just allowing it to be purely
about process and about letting something flow out of your head
and whatever is in here through your hand and then it's done.
And you don't have to show it to anyone.
And no one is looking at it.
And no one is judging it or making
any value assessment of it.
KELSEY ALPAIO: Thanks for watching.
Do you have a career crush?
Tell us about them in the comments.
And we'll see if we can talk to them for you.
Subscribe to our channel to see more interviews with people
actually living the dream.
Bye!