WEBVTT

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KIT MILLS: Sit on
my chair, like this?

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KELSEY ALPAIO: Yeah.

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KIT MILLS: I'm on my toes.

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But my back is braced against
the back of the chair.

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And something about this--

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the gravity of this
position makes it easier

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for me to feel like
I'm really attacking

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the thing that I'm making.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: That's Kit Mills.

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He's a professional
illustrator and comic artist.

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And like him, I
also do my best work

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while sitting like a gargoyle.

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In this episode,
Kit and I break down

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what it actually takes to be
a professional illustrator.

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KIT MILLS: It can be
a delicate balance

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between whether they
wanted you specifically

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because of some personal
spirit that you are bringing

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to the piece or if they
hired you because you are

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a pair of hands and can draw.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: What
does it actually

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take to be a
professional artist?

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KIT MILLS: I love
that it's basically

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problem-solving with pictures.

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Each project is different.

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And there is a
different goal and type

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of communication involved
in each thing that I do.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit
specializes in illustration.

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And full disclosure--
Ascend has commissioned him

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to do some work for us before.

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Let's throw it up on the screen.

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So you wake up in the morning.

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It's time to work.

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What does your day look like?

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Spell it out for me.

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KIT MILLS: I focus
best if I have

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done some kind of
physical activity

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before I start working.

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So I like to go for a
little walk around the block

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or do some yoga or something
just to get my blood flowing

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and make sure that my brain
is functioning properly.

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Unfortunately, I usually
sit on the couch,

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like a little gargoyle, and
sketch away with my knees up

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and hunched over in probably
the worst posture position

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I allow myself to indulge in.

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I like to work from 8:00
to noon or 8:00 to 1:00.

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And then I take a
break in the afternoon

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because, for some
reason, my brain just

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can't focus for a couple
of hours in the afternoon.

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But then, like a magic
switch, 4:00 PM rolls around.

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And then suddenly,
I'm focused again.

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I can think.

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I'm ready and raring to go.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: As a
freelancer, he's not only

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doing the illustration work.

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He's also doing all of
the project management.

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So yes, art has deadlines,
workflows, feedback.

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KIT MILLS: I'll have
an initial interaction

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with a client where they give
me a brief on what sort of thing

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that they're looking
for, what the turnaround

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time is like, what their
budget is for the project.

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And I negotiate around
all of those things

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on what I'm capable of
doing, how much I want.

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After we have our initial
agreement and contracts

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are signed and everything, we--

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I will do some initial
sketches or designs

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for what I think that
the project should look.

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And then the client will look
at them and be like, I number 2,

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or I don't any of these,
please start again.

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[LAUGHING]

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And so then I take that and I
do a more worked out sketch type

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thing.

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And then we take it
incrementally from there.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit went
to Syracuse University

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and studied illustration there.

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But an age-old question here--

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do you need a degree in art to
be successful in this field?

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KIT MILLS: Honestly, no.

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I don't think so.

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No client has ever asked me if
I have a degree, where I went

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to school, or what my GPA was.

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No one cares as long as
you can produce good work

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and you are reliable.

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That said, I learned a
lot from getting a degree,

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learned a lot about
technique and about working

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and about discipline.

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So if you have other
ways of obtaining

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those things in your life, I
don't think that is necessary.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit said he
only ever went to one class

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about the business
side of illustration

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and he learned the rest of it
just through trial and error

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in the early days of his career.

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KIT MILLS: We didn't
really learn very much

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about what it's like to
actually interact with clients,

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how to get jobs, how to
advocate for yourself,

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how to negotiate--
undersold myself

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a lot until I figured
out how unsustainable

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as a practice that is.

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I think I should have--

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I probably tried to--

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earlier in my career,
tried to build

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more of a community
for myself out

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of fellow professional creative
workers because when I started,

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I had friends who
made art, but no

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one who was really working
as an illustrator the way

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that I was or was trying to.

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And so I didn't
really have anyone

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to ask for advice on
that kind of thing.

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But I do now.

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And that is super valuable.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: How should you
go about valuing your work,

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especially when you're
just getting started?

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And what have you
found helpful for you

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as you've grown
throughout your career?

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KIT MILLS: There is
actually a decent formula

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that you can use in order
to figure out how much you

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should be charging hourly.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: There's
a way to calculate this?

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KIT MILLS: Oh my god.

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[LAUGHING]

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I know that there is a
stereotype about artists

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not being good at math.

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And I am sad to say, but I--

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they're right in there.

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So you think about
how much money

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you would like to make in a year
and think about how many hours

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per week you would
like to work or find

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is a reasonable amount to work.

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So let's go with 40.

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And you multiply that by 50 for
the number of weeks in the year

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that you'll probably
be working because you

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should take some time out
for sick days and vacations.

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Just be kind to yourself.

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If you multiply that,
that comes to 2,000 hours

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of working per year.

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So if you divide your
yearly earnings goal--

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so let's say $60,000-- by that,
you get about $30 an hour.

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You should also-- $30
is pretty low, honestly.

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I usually start at
least $50 an hour.

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Often, clients will want to
buy the commercial rights

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to your artwork,
which means that they

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can use it and reproduce
it as they see fit.

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You should charge a lot more
for that, at least twice.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: You've brought
up this concept of advocating

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for yourself a few times.

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Can you talk about,
first of all,

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what that means in this
industry and, second of all,

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how do you go about
actually doing that?

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KIT MILLS: Yeah.

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So it all comes down
to self-respect.

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[LAUGHING]

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So if you are
negotiating with a client

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and they quote you a rate that
is much lower than the figure

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that you're looking
for, push back on it.

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Don't just accept what
they're offering you.

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I think most people
forget that negotiation

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is and should be a part of all
of these contract agreements.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: How do
you go about getting jobs

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and attracting new clients?

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KIT MILLS: I have
gotten most of my jobs

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through networking,
which networking

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is less of a formal structure
than people think of it.

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I don't really go to networking
events and hobnob with people

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and be like, I'm an
illustrator looking for work.

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Networking is basically
about making friends

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in your field, people that
you actually genuinely enjoy

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being around and enjoy
having conversations

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with about your work and
about your perspectives

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as creative workers.

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And if your friends are
working, chances they

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are working with clients who
have other gigs that they

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need to give to people.

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And so if you are friends
with people who are working,

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they will pass the
jobs on to you.

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KELSEY ALPAIO: Kit works for
the clients that he takes on.

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But he's also his own boss.

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He doesn't go into an office.

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He doesn't report to anyone.

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He sets his own hours, which
means that it's up to him

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to stay accountable and to make
sure he makes his deadlines.

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So what's it like
to manage yourself?

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KIT MILLS: The thing
that I immediately

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thought of when
you asked that was

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remembering to take
care of yourself

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and take care of your body.

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There's a culture
of procrastination

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and then crunching when
it's time for a deadline

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to happen and time to get
all your stuff in and finish

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and ready for the client.

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And I think that cyclical
procrastination and crunch work

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style is very harmful.

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It's easy to forget to take
breaks and actually take

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care of your body.

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I'm in my 30s.

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I physically can't draw for as
long as I could when I was 25.

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My back hurts.

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My hand hurts.

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I have to take
breaks and stretch.

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So if you start doing those
now, when you're young,

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that will put some great
practices in place for you

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when you're older and
starting to get creaky.

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[LAUGHING]

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KELSEY ALPAIO:
Art is, obviously,

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something that you're
very passionate about.

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How do you avoid
that burnout when

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your work is your passion,
when you are creating and using

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your creativity to--

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as a job?

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How do you then
use your creativity

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after hours for yourself
and for your passion?

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KIT MILLS: That's a tough one.

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And I think about it a lot.

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I've definitely gotten better
at managing that kind of thing

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in the last couple of years.

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I do a lot of sketching
and making art

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and then not showing
it to anyone,

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which I think is really
helpful for reminding yourself

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that the creative
impulse is for you

00:09:35.070 --> 00:09:37.860 align:middle line:84%
and not worrying about what
other people think about when

00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:40.380 align:middle line:84%
they look at your work, just
allowing it to be purely

00:09:40.380 --> 00:09:45.750 align:middle line:84%
about process and about letting
something flow out of your head

00:09:45.750 --> 00:09:48.823 align:middle line:84%
and whatever is in here through
your hand and then it's done.

00:09:48.823 --> 00:09:50.490 align:middle line:84%
And you don't have
to show it to anyone.

00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:51.900 align:middle line:90%
And no one is looking at it.

00:09:51.900 --> 00:09:54.300 align:middle line:84%
And no one is
judging it or making

00:09:54.300 --> 00:09:56.470 align:middle line:90%
any value assessment of it.

00:09:56.470 --> 00:09:57.970 align:middle line:84%
KELSEY ALPAIO:
Thanks for watching.

00:09:57.970 --> 00:09:59.642 align:middle line:90%
Do you have a career crush?

00:09:59.642 --> 00:10:01.100 align:middle line:84%
Tell us about them
in the comments.

00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:03.360 align:middle line:84%
And we'll see if we can
talk to them for you.

00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:06.200 align:middle line:84%
Subscribe to our channel to
see more interviews with people

00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:08.420 align:middle line:90%
actually living the dream.

00:10:08.420 --> 00:10:09.500 align:middle line:90%
Bye!

00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:10.000 align:middle line:90%