[audio logo]

Speaker: OTAN, Outreach and Technical Assistance Network.

Elisia Doonan: All right. My name is Elisia Doonan. I am from a community college, San Diego Community College, continuing Ed. And I am also now a OTAN SME, Subject Matter Expert. Well, I'm so new, I can't even remember what it is. [laughs] So, anyway, welcome. I'm very excited to share this information with you all, something that I've done for many years with the district.

All right. So here, welcome all. So just I already did my introduction. But if you want, because we have a lot of people here. If you want to say where you're from, we have a few minutes. Introduce yourself, what department, and what brought you here today. How about that? If you want to go around, let's start with you, real quick.

Diana Vera-alba: Sure. Hi. I'm Diana Vera-Alba. I'm an ESL Instructor at the same district as Elisia. What brought me here is I'm the OER coordinator, but very, very interested in accessibility for my students. I teach ESL. So accessibility is really important, because I teach online. Thank you.

Chun Hee McMahon: My name is Chun Hee McMahon. I come from Clovis Adult Education. And I'm a Nursing Program Director there. And I'm the only music in CTR-- CTE Program uses a lot of technology. And this year, I joined DLAC, two years' commitment. So it was one of those things that I'm obligated to come here and present.

[laughter]

I know. Now, I can relax because I did it yesterday.

Elisia Doonan: I get it.

Chun Hee McMahon: So yes, I think the TDLS the best thing that ever happened seven years ago. And I think DLAC is going to teach me a lot. And we would be-- our CTE, especially nursing and health, they're like, moving towards technologies instead of paper intensive.

Elisia Doonan: Very good.

Chris Belichick: Hello, everyone. My name is Chris Belichick. And I am an instructor, beginning ESL instructor. And I also work for SECCE at MiraCosta college. And because I teach a beginning class, tech skills for beginning learners, as you may know, are a little more at a beginning level. So I'm here to learn anything that you have here to-- for digital-- for students, beginner ESL students.

Kristie Reyes: I'm Kristie Reyes. I'm also a MiraCosta ESL faculty. And I'm here to see all my friends. I've been coming to TDLS for as long I can remember. So it's good to see everybody. And I'm always wanting to learn and grow. So that's why I'm here.

Larissa Sisson: Hi, everybody. My name is Larissa Sisson. I'm from Monterey Peninsula Unified School District, Adult School. And I'm a ESL teacher. And this is my first time at OTAN And I love the classes.

Veronica Parker: Hi. I'm Veronica Parker. And I'm a coordinator representing the state Technical Assistance Project. My colleague Mandilee and I [ INAUDIBLE ] digital equity, digital literacy, and the digital divide. And so we're looking for tools and resources to continue to share on the state.

Speaker: Hi. I'm [ INAUDIBLE ], I am an ESL teacher in the [ INAUDIBLE ] school, [ INAUDIBLE ] digital school. And I am here to learn and glean as much information I can from every single one of you. And what's your favorite seasons, also?

[interposing voices]

Elisia Doonan: We can do that at the end.

Speaker: Yeah. I am a winter sports person.

Elisia Doonan: Right. OK.

[interposing voices]

Perfect. We'll do another point on that one.

[interposing voices]

Katrina Tamura: Hi. My name is Katrina Tamura. And I teach at MiraCosta College and Palomar College. I teach in non-credit ESL. And this is important. That's always going to be. So I think it's just important to keep showing up, learning, and applying things, new things in the classroom.

Elisia Doonan: Great. [ INAUDIBLE ]

Mariana Silva: Hi, everyone. My name is Mariana Silva. I teach ESL at MiraCosta as well.

[interposing voices]

[laughs] I always want to learn and connect with our colleagues. There is always nice to learn new things, but also refresh, because there's so much data that sometimes it's nice to hear a refresh or validation of what you're doing. And my favorite season is summer. It's just so nice [ INAUDIBLE ].

Linda Pantoskey: I'm Linda Pantoskey. I teach ESL basic at Tamalpais Adult School in Marin. This is my first year. And I've taught ESL to kids, and in public schools in Richmond and Oakland. But well, teaching adults is new. And it's amazing. I'm loving it, but it's very challenging in bringing technology. And the basic literacy level, like you say, is really challenging. And I'm also supporting a CTE class in healthcare aid.

Rebecca Clampett: My name is Rebecca Clampett. I'm from Coronado Unified School district I'm an ESL a teacher, multi-level. And what brought me here today was the warmer weather, y'all.

[laughter]

Just kidding. What brought me here initially is Canvas. I wanted to work on Canvas, and finding out it's going to take 10 hours on board. And I kind of shifted and I've been taking classes that I can apply to something for my classroom tomorrow or Monday. So I'm shifted over and learned to do the online games and the digital games and loving it, so.

Ellen Jackson: Hi. My Name is Ellen Jackson. I'm an ESL teacher from Huntington Beach Old School. I am here, of course, like everyone, to learn more so that we can grow be able to use it in my classroom and also be able to share with colleagues.

Lynne Ruvalcaba: I'm Dr. Lynne Ruvalcaba, the Administrator of Educational Technology for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. That's a long way of saying I have responsibility for bringing tech to 33 institutions where our learners may not have even seen a laptop in about 30 years.

So this particular course is interesting to me because my most recent experience is of a 68-year-old student who didn't know what a mouse was, and did not know how to use a trackpad. And so just bringing them from that very, very early concept of I've never had this device, I've never used this device, to understand when they leave us, this is the bus schedule, this is the telemedicine, this is the banking, and giving them the digital literacy skills that they need to not become a guest again is my goal.

Elisia Doonan: Great.

Speaker: My name's Erica [ INAUDIBLE ] I'm a resource teacher. And this is an adult education. And this is one of the biggest challenges for the teachers I support, getting students familiar with the technology so they can access the Google Classrooms, et cetera.

Jennifer Hanson: Hi. I'm Jennifer Hanson. I'm with Rosemont Adult Education in San Diego. Second question is a lot. I mean--

Elisia Doonan: Yeah, we could do that one.

[interposing voices]

Jennifer Hanson: I wouldn't be here at all today, if it wasn't for my amazing administrator, my director. That is why we're here. She gave us this opportunity to be part of Du Lac and TDLS, and obviously to bring it to our students and to our teachers. Favorite season, I love cool weather. So this is awesome. Am I the only one that likes cold weather?

[laughter]

This is nice. I just wrote to the director of ESL at Grossmont. And Joan is full of it, because she would be here on her own to talk about it. But my favorite season, when it's wintertime, I wish it was summer. And when it's summer, I wish it's winter. [ INAUDIBLE ] But we're just happy to be here and learning and-- to all of you. Thank you.

Virginia Arreola: I'm Virginia Arreola. And I'm from Soledad Unified School District, Soledad Adult School. I sit proctor, but I do that in the evenings. During the day, I'm in the office. And I'm here because I want to learn more on how to support my teachers in the classroom so they can support the students.

Felicity Foster: Hello. My name is Felicity Foster. I teach high status Spanish and English for Soledad Adult School. What brought you here is, well, we're getting ready to move from paper-based, because our students are so used to paper, to computers. But we need to get them into that of computer literacy. And my favorite season is summer, because I have a lot of free time.

[laughter]

Speaker: I thought I'd sneak in.

[interposing voices]

Cindy Wislofsky, Hi, everybody. It's so nice to-- oh, and I'm working part time for OTAN, a former ESL teacher and supporting here-- supporting Elisia. And it's nice to network with everybody. I love spring. The garden is starting to flourish. [ INAUDIBLE ]

Marie Doerner: And I'm Marie Doerner. I work for San Diego Community-- I don't know what we call it now-- San Diego College of Continuing Education. We keep changing our name all th etime.

[laughter]

Trying to figure out what is Adult Ed, and what should be a better name for it. So right now, we're College of Continuing Education. I'm a Learning Disability Specialist. And I teach [ INAUDIBLE ] to folks. And I'm the resource specialist for students in regular classes.

Joey Cole: My name is Joey Cole. I also work for SDCE. I teach a class, communication class.

Elisia Doonan: All right, very good. [ INAUDIBLE ] I think you asked me--

Speaker: What's your favorite season?

Elisia Doonan: Oh, what's my favorite season?

[laughter]

OK. I'm going to say summer, because we have a pool. So I can swim in the pool. [laughs] That's cool. I was going to say spring, but I do like the summer. The other thing is I remember you all asked me, do you need a computer? There's a couple of things that we can use on the computer. But if you don't, it's OK. I do have the--

Speaker: [ INAUDIBLE ]

Elisia Doonan: OK. So what we're going to learn today, tips that we're going to focus on, because it is digital learning, just the basics. We're going to go on keyboards, one-click mouse, touchscreens, mouse pointer center settings, and Immersive Reader Tool. Maybe this is too basic, but I will show you some tips that we've learned. And we just had-- we just did another one prior to this. And we kind of went over that. So similar to that-- here we go. So five tips, there we go.

All right. So keyboards. This information is designed to work with a desktop, or laptop, or standalone monitor. For learners who may need access, an educator can try these following ideas. So these are examples of different types of keyboards. Now obviously, if you are in a lab, and we have these keyboards, you could switch it out, OK? Now, if you have labs that have laptops, you know you can get an exterior one so it's workable.

Now I was listening to-- I am saying-- you said a 68-year-old didn't know what a mouse was or the keyboard. Now vision, this is perfect, because you can see it. Now you have a variety of types that you want. When I was in-- my site closed down because of COVID. But I had assorted colors. And some, let's say you preferred this one. But Christie really liked this. Some like this because the colors are the high hit notes or high hit letters. So all of them have different whatever you want.

So here's an example of one. So s when we are in our labs, I would also have staff from this agency helping. Now what I noticed was that some staff preferred these better than one of those. I'm talking about just the regular. So these are just something-- I do have a website that you can look at. But you can Google these. These are called--

Speaker: I think it's just more prominent, larger.

Speaker: We're trying to compare those--

Elisia Doonan: Oh, yeah. Oh, we can have them around.

Speaker: --probably prominent--

Elisia Doonan: Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

[interposing voices]

Elisia Doonan: I don't have-- she had all the others. So you can also-- now the things that I'm going to talk about. So we call these big read keyboards, OK? Yeah. So they come in different colors. And I'm going to click this over. So also remember that--

Speaker: --the stickers.

Elisia Doonan: Yeah, I think that's the next step. So I'm going to go over that one. There's three different ones. So the great thing about this, you don't have to have-- this can help with vision. Now, how many of you wear readers when you're typing? So I mean, and when you're typing on your own keyboard, you don't have to have these. You can have just this keyboard. Does that make it easier for you? Yeah, and also for seniors who are new coming onto this, this is so much easier. It's more accessible for them. So they're going to feel positive. So that's kind of, one of the great things about that.

So that's an easy read. So here's another thing I'll talk about, the F5 button. So this is an educator can click the F5 on their PC, their laptop. This gives an option for the keyboard to light up. And it's called the backlight. Do any of what that backlight is? Have you ever used it? OK, I see some checking your pads. So try to, if you don't know, you can-- I was going to say, let's try it.

But write it down, the backlight. Know where that's at, because on some keyboards, it'll be nice. I prefer it because I like to see my letters lit up. My husband doesn't like it, and that's fine. I personally like to see more things. I just like it. So that works for me. So this is another little tip that's right in there. If you don't know where to find it, go on your toolbar-- go on your toolbar, and go under Settings. And you should have something that will say backlight.

So that's, kind of, a nice one. Some people like it. Some people don't. You may not have the F5. It may not be on yours. But go under Settings and look for a backlight. So the big keys, that's exactly what I was talking about, the big keys. Now this is the one I prefer, because I like the yellow with the black. That's me personally. So that's-- you don't have to have that. So again, see how that yellow stands out a little bit more than-- just something to look at, something different.

Speaker: I wish it-- does it have anything to do with wacky vision?

Elisia Doonan: Vision? It can. I mean, if you are having vision problems, these can be easier. Now some people, maybe the yellow is a distraction for them, so then you wouldn't need this then. So I think my next one, I'll show you the keys. So here we go. Big keys is a visually friendly keyboard, which can be purchased for learners who are visually challenged or need easier reading access, because I can be visually challenged at midnight. [laughs]

This also helps with finger dexterity issues, tremors, arthritis, or CP [ INAUDIBLE ] because you can see it easier, right? And the keys are bigger. Well, you'll see this one's bigger. All right. The color schemes come in an assortment of colors also. So you don't-- you'd have white, yellow, black, and then the colors are in different colors, also. What I did again, I have a personal preference. But that doesn't mean that you like that one. So I make sure I have two of each sorted out, so everyone can have their own choice.

All right, here's the stickers. So here's another way of doing it. This is what-- so an alternative to purchasing these or purchasing this would be a sticker. These you can buy on Amazon. You can go into AbleNet, any of these catalogs. And you can choose what kind you want. So you would just attach it right on there. Yes.

Speaker: Do any of those have uppercase with like, a smaller lowercase on the same key? Because they don't always--

Elisia Doonan: Right, I only see these in the uppercase, because it would be just mimicking your keyboard. That would be hard. And that would be on a key. That would distract me.

Speaker: Because they use lowercase more than they use uppercase.

Elisia Doonan: Right. And amazing, as you said that we had discovered that, and I was in another workshop saying that when you're writing your name, you know how you need space? A lot of our students didn't know where the space was. So in all our computers in our lab, we devised like a red dot. And that meant the space. So we had come up with these different things of meaning what we wanted for them. So yes.

And also again, making sure that we have everyone, we also have keyboards with Braille. And there's also keyboards with Braille stickers. So you can order with Braille stickers also. So just making sure you have everything. And again, the other great thing about these, because we had a lab, I had a Braille keyboard. I would just pop it in when that student-- I needed with my student. So making sure we're hitting all modes, all learners. OK, our next one.

So the one-click mouse. Now, I also noticed when we were doing our labs that because we have these with the scroll and the right click, the basic one, we all know we're talking about that. But if you're someone who's like, I just want-- I just want to do it. So what happens? What happens when they're using these mouse? If you don't know how to use a mouse what? Who knows what--

Speaker: --buttons [ INAUDIBLE ] right--

Elisia Doonan: There are into another land, right? That's not good. So to be a little bit more-- to make it more successful, this is the one-click mouse. And this is what we have used on many a student, many learners. So great for working with learners who were challenged, again, with dexterity and mouse control. And this mouse is just a basic one-click and go, which I like. That's very simple. And this is a stepping stone to the conventional mouse. That doesn't mean, oh, I'm doomed. I can only be on this. Absolutely not, you can go on other ones.

So this is an option. This is so much you. It's so successful, versus the scroll. That scroll thing is just [groans]. So that's why we had-- and again, if I was in the lab, I can just pop it in and take it out. Because I've noticed that was happy hands going all over, take things away, why put them out, right? I see a lot of head nodding. That's what I had discovered, take it away.

All right. So here's the next thing. I think almost now all-- everything is a touchscreen. How many of you have touchscreens in your labs or? A lot, probably. OK. Well, that's-- because we have touchscreens that we had to buy them and put them on. So this is how old they were. But it's still good. So the learner can just use a touch on an icon on the screen with their finger and go. So we like that. This can be very empowering for learner to proceed with the activity by themselves, which we all know, right?

Some computers already have touchscreens already included. Now you're saying, well, what are they doing? It sounds like someone had asked me, I have very low learners. So touchscreen is going to be a great. Because you can put them on a matching game. And you can find your are adults, because that's our-- what we work with, that you can find adult matching games out there. And if not, you can make up. It's going to take a little work, but you can do it. And they like it.

So the best thing sometimes you might want to work by yourself. Or you might want two people. You might want to work with a buddy. The other thing is because of what we do, we also ask them, OK, so start telling, describing what is it, so they can have communication. So if you're ESL, you can-- what is this? You can make one on kitchen and have them match it with the word. However, you want a lot of great matching.

So the touchscreen is something I really liked. And the other thing, I think I have the next one. Like I said, so is the use of a stylus. And I didn't bring. One I forgot that. But you all know what a stylus is? So some of the stylus now, if you're working with someone who is arthritic, you know that you can pump it up, right? You can make it bigger. So think about that, now. What are some tools that you can use? You can use the-- do you remember the pencil, the little-- the gripper on the pencil? You can use that to make it a little bit bigger.

Now if I'm very arthritic, and you can use a piece of material. You can use a wash-- I like to use a small washcloth because of the texture of the cotton. And you can wrap it around. And that makes it bigger. Because if you're arthritic and you can't close your hands, there you go. But there's also-- you can probably go to any of those orthotic places, and buy that. I'm just saying working in a place with low budget, you know what I'm saying? Come up with different ideas.

So that's one thing that we did. And you know what? Some of them really like the stylus, because you can give them, kind of fancy, within budget reasonable, OK? So some like to use it. It's a tool for the touch screen. And again, you can adapt it. So some great things then. So-- and you can-- see now this is pretty tiny.

We've had, I'm not kidding. We've adapted a stylist that was very big. We added like another something to it. Because that's-- if you are having problems gripping it, look at that-- so not going to happen. And what if you are sitting here, and you want to-- and you're in a wheelchair, are you going to be able to do it? You kind of get-- so that's where you need to be extended. It's almost like a wand. So you're going to have to have that. So again, look and see what your learner needs, and just adapt it. I think we're so grateful working at sites that don't have a lot of money that you become--

Speaker: Resourceful.

Elisia Doonan: [laughs] Yeah, you become very resourceful, yes. I mean, is that a beeping? It is. Least I'm able now to come up with an idea to get someone who's in a wheelchair who can't work. But I can get them now to do it, right? So that's kind of [ INAUDIBLE ]. All right. So here's the example of the touchscreen. Again I used it concentration game, something like that, you could do.

And then, oh, here's for the mouse pointer. So this would be in your settings that you would find. How many have-- you know there's a mouse pointer setting? OK. So this is a great one. Helps with visual acuity, concentration, and dexterity. So with this one, once you get in there, this looks very complicated to me. This is like too much information. But I will tell you, one of the favorite ones that my students liked is this little, I call it the Mickey Mouse hand. And you can change the color to yellow. Yes.

Speaker: It's also really good at doing distance learning. Because if you're doing it on Teams, or Zoom, or whatever, it's really hard for people to see if the teacher is moving the mouse around. So make it much bigger than change the color.

Elisia Doonan: Right. And my next slide will have that. It is perfect. You know what? And then you have some who don't like that. So when I had the lab, I had a variety. And they all knew which ones. After a while, they'll know which ones to go to. So yes. So take a peek in your settings and check it out. You know that you can make them click or do that spiral that dragging. To me, that's annoying. I don't like to just [groans] talk about visual acuity. After that, I'll have it, right? So yeah.

That's great. So this was if we're going to do it. So I just put in here. Locate your taskbar. Find the Search. You all seem to be able to handle that? If not, it's in my-- it'll be in the Google Slide when the keyword [ INAUDIBLE ]. If anyone wants to try it, you can do it late.r Good? Any questions on that?

OK. So there we go. There's the example. You can pick the colors that you want. You can make it bigger, kind of, a nice thing, nice little feature. I like it for me. And I like it a little bit bigger. So when I'm looking at all my different, what I call on desktops, [groans] I just need that big pointer, boom. So that's something. There you go. OK. So the Immersive Reader. How many of our-- we probably all have used it, right?

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Elisia Doonan: OK. So I--

Speaker: No, can you-- yeah, don't assume.

Elisia Doonan: Oh, OK. The Immersive Reader, this is a great tool. It's--

Speaker: --available on everything, just Microsoft.

Elisia Doonan: Right, you're right. So--

Speaker: We're sorry.

Elisia Doonan: Yeah. This one, you have to go, I believe, in Google or, because my husband has a Mac. He went under Voice. It has a voice that reads out. So you have to go under Tools. But this one, yes, it'll talk to you. So, if you want to try it, it would be definitely in-- yes, you're right, not Mac and iPad. So it's a Windows. It's in Word. And it comes-- what I did in my Search bar under-- but it's already there now. I went in there and said, Immersive Reader, once I'm in Microsoft Word, it will come up. And there it is. You press it, you type try, I want to test this out, it'll talk to you. The menu will come down.

Speaker: It's a good point. She just reminded me. It's also in Canvas.

Elisia Doonan: Oh, yeah. It's right in the Edit Mode--

Speaker: And it's in Teams as well, Microsoft Teams.

Elisia Doonan: [ INAUDIBLE ] That's good. It's great that it's in Canvas. How many of you use Canvas for everyone, the students? Great. Now, I understand as far as our department for adults with disabilities, there's hardly any who use it at our site, because that's-- it's a lot, right?

Speaker: Sorry, I use it.

Elisia Doonan: Well, as a teacher. But do the students use it?

Speaker: Yes.

Elisia Doonan: Oh.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. No, a lot of my students use it.

Elisia Doonan: Oh, so she--

Speaker: And I use it in my classroom every day. And then I tell them how to log in every day. I mean--

Elisia Doonan: So it's a lot--

Speaker: --I think the passwords and getting in--

Elisia Doonan: That's--

Speaker: --because then they have access to the Immersive Read-- well, and then I have-- Yeah, then they have access to Immersive Reader. And they also have access to the other websites that I access. So it's easy for them to click.

Elisia Doonan: So my products, I put-- all can be found on Amazon and other retailers. So it was big keys, stickers, the one-click, and the stylus, OK? So those minimal-- I mean, you get fancier stuff. And here's one keyboard I didn't show. This had a guard on it. So-- and this, as you know this is a little bit different, this particular one. So the great thing about this is, what do you think you can do on this?

Speaker: Well, that's the big keys--

Elisia Doonan: Yeah, big keys, yes. But what-- there's something-- I don't know if you guys can pick up on it or just because I know what it's. So this if-- I can put my hand on it, and I'm not hitting the rest of the keys. So I can do this.

[keyboard clicking]

If you just want to type your name, so it goes like that. Yeah, you can-- so the other great thing about it-- so also seniors with any of the tremors going on, that's going to be awesome. So think about your seniors, your parents, or anyone in your family. Because I know this would be very helpful back in the day, but I didn't know about it. So that would be-- and that would make them a lot-- they can do social media, stuff like that.

So this is-- again, we don't have to think disabilities, just think of usability, what makes it easier for them. So this-- and this can be in plastic. And Joy, you said there's metal out there. So these are key guards, key guards. So something that's really great for that. And here's the other thing that we have used. Remember I told you that we had like a big wand? Now, let's say that you don't have that, you just can't do it. So, if I could use your stylus again.

So imagine that you have your stylus, my big stick again. I can do it this way. So again, just being creative and looking at your learner to see what can I do to help them. I'm almost there. What else can I do to help them. So it's just kind of thinking outside the box, real outside, but getting them there, just getting them used to it. Yes.

Speaker: Do you mind, Elisia, if I share the device lending and demonstration center information?

Elisia Doonan: Sure, yeah. Do you all-- she works for a-- go ahead.

Speaker: Well, I actually work along with the Community College. I also work for United Cerebral Palsy. There-- there's a technology lab. One of the programs that we have. There is a Device Lending and Demonstration Center through ability tools. We are one of 10 device lending libraries through the state of California. And we loan all kinds of different mouse, keyboards, communication devices. And it's a free loan program for 35 days.

That's a great tip. And also the great thing about that, let's pretend you're not sure if you want this, right Joy? I'm not sure this would work for me. Can I go check it out?

Speaker: Absolutely.

Elisia Doonan: So 30 days of trial and error, that's pretty good.

Speaker: 35.

[laughter]

Elisia Doonan: She just said, sorry. So that's a great tip just to know. Again, think outside the box. It's not only for adults with disabilities. What ability can I help them with? Because there's so many seniors out there who just get, that keyboard is just too crazy. Change it up for them, right?

All right. So here's the other thing. In summary, I just want to go over the-- technology continues to improve and provide greater access for all people of a variety of challenges, right? So the great ones are OTAN's Accessibility Resources. If any of you-- if you click that, it'll take you to the link. Also WAVE, this talking about the different accessibilities. CAST, anyone familiar with that? That's UDL, Universal Design Learning. GRACKLE DOCS, now that's for-- isn't that just for Google? Yes. So that's with Google.

Speaker: [ INAUDIBLE ] Google extensions [ INAUDIBLE ]

Elisia Doonan: Yes.

Speaker: [ INAUDIBLE ]

Elisia Doonan: This will be all. And I'm going to give you the QR code right now. Any questions? I know-- gosh, I think I went really fast, sorry guys. Yes.

Speaker: Just to add, someone asked about stickers in lowercase. So those are-- you can also get those on Amazon.

Elisia Doonan: The lowercase ones? OK. I think we predominantly only did the uppercase, because when you look at the keyboard, it's all Arial font. So we stayed with that, just because. Yes.

Speaker: I have a question. So I know your students are adults with disabilities. And a lot of us teach outside of that. So you know your students are coming with certain needs. We may-- maybe see, oh, I think a student needs something. How do you approach that student without like insulting them--

Elisia Doonan: You mean an adult? So maybe you could have a couple of--

Speaker: Just, kind of--

Elisia Doonan: Yeah, maybe just-- how-- do you think this could help you?

Speaker: OK.

Elisia Doonan: [ INAUDIBLE ] Yeah, just-- why don't we try this for today? Because this is like one of the least expensive ways before you do the things. But you can go to the lending, check it out. [laughs] Any other questions?