Jenee Crayne: Thank you for joining. And also Diana, there's about 12 people in the waiting room.
Mandilee Gonzales: I'm going to turn off the waiting room so that people can come in.
Jenee Crayne: OK, fantastic. Thank you. Well, good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us. My name is Jenée Crayne, and I am the Director for the North Santa Clara County Consortium. And I'm here with my colleagues from both adult schools and from colleges this morning for this presentation. And I will hand that off right, Desirie?
Desirie Torres: Good morning, everybody. My name is Desirie Torres. I am a Counselor at FUHSD Adult School.
Felisa Vilaubi: I'll go next. My name is Felisa. I am a Counselor at De Anza College for Adult School transitions.
Janie Garcia: I'll go next. My name is Janie Garcia. I am the Adult Education Program Coordinator in the Outreach Department at Foothill College. I'm formerly adult education staff, and a few of us have been involved in CAEP since its inception of AB 86 so hello.
Raji Visvanathan: Good morning, everyone. Thank you for spending your morning with us. My name is Raji Visvanathan. I manage the career advancement classes at the FUHSD Adult School, and I also help with transitions.
Jenee Crayne: OK, well, I will share my screen.
Felisa Vilaubi: Well, while Jenée is getting her screen ready, questions that come up throughout this presentation, feel free to use the chat, and we'll be monitoring it so that we can make sure to be a little interactive if you guys have anything that comes up. We're definitely interested in hearing from you.
Janie Garcia: And we've been doing this and speaking about this a lot. So definitely let us know if there's some clarification, if we're going too fast, we get excited. This is meant to be interactive. At least in the sense of this, this is a conversation, so don't be shy.
Jenee Crayne: And Diana, we did have some polls that we had submitted. I'm not sure if those are available for us to--
Mandilee Gonzales: Yes, I think I had-- yeah, I have two polls.
Jenee Crayne: OK, yeah, so I guess number one-- you guys, is this a good time? Let's start off with the poll. All right, let's start with poll number one.
Mandilee Gonzales: Sure. OK, let me launch this.
Jenee Crayne: All right, so what we're asking is, whom in the room is currently offering dual enrollment either in their consortium or on their campus? Oh, and I did see a hand.
Janie Garcia: To be clear, we have split it up in two, high school dual enrollment, adult school enrollment and both or of course no.
Jenee Crayne: And then I saw someone raise their hand and then they popped off. So whomever just raised their hand, if you want to just come off-mic and ask your question, that's definitely OK.
Janie Garcia: All right, everybody has answered. Let's hear. Oh, wait, no, that is not correct. It's saying 100% answered but never mind, disregard. Thank you, Karima for letting us know that was a mistake. We've all been there.
Jenee Crayne: Yeah.
Felisa Vilaubi: All right, we'll give it another maybe 10 seconds. Looks like people have slowed down.
Jenee Crayne: Yeah, it looks like 43 or 43, OK. So we're in the poll.
Felisa Vilaubi: Cool.
Janie Garcia: And then I think we have to share the results for them too.
Jenee Crayne: Oh, thank you. Sorry.
Felisa Vilaubi: So it does look like the majority of folks here are starting a dual enrollment program and not offering them yet, which is great. We're happy to help.
Jenee Crayne: All right. OK, here we go. Stop sharing. Just going to close that up, all right.
Janie Garcia: Next slide?
Jenee Crayne: Yeah.
Janie Garcia: There we go.
Felisa Vilaubi: Sure. The objective of today is to be able to give you guys a brief background of what we have previously done in conjunction with SB554, share how we've used dual enrollment to meet the needs of our student population, share how we are improving our dual enrollment experience for students through pathways and systematized support, and then show some data on student experience and feedback that we've gotten to better suit transitions for students.
So I think one of the pieces that we have mentioned before in previous presentations that we think is really important is that this is years in the making. But this isn't something that we came on and decided that we could just do, and we've actually been actively working on this since 2015 when we learned from Santa Barbara City that it's a local board decision who gets designated to special admits.
So previously in our consortium, we had only high school students be considered special admits, and our adult school students were not considered to be special admits. And so we worked systematically to change that. And then in 2017, we had what we call our opening day, which is professional development for both Foothill and De Anza. And we had a student panel of adult school students that talked about their experience, why it was hard for them to want to join in to the community college systems. And that was really helpful for getting people at the community college side to understand why they wanted to be involved.
And then in 2019, we did another opening day presentation where the time our director was really strategic about inviting our board president, board members, our chancellor, presidents from both the colleges. And we brought them in to show data as to how many students were coming into our colleges. I think that also really helped people understand their role in providing effective transitions on the community college side. Next slide.
OK, so this is actually the ed code that allows for us to use whomever we want for special admits. So it says that, "The governing board of community college district may admit to any community college under its jurisdiction as a special part-time or full-time student." And this is what we used as our precedent to create the board policy that we submitted. Jenée, you want one take this one?
Janie Garcia: Sure. So within our consortium, we have currently three active work groups that are supported by our leadership board. We have student support, data, and then curriculum articulation and alignment. When we were forming our groups but also continuing to do this work, we noted the importance of having the correct representation from all five institutions, right? So from each adult school there are three in our consortium as well as the community college district, which includes Foothill and De Anza Community College.
So for example, to give you an idea of how our work groups are formed and comprise, students support has people who represent positions of being deans, faculty, classified staff at the community college, and as well as department chairs. We have counselors from both the colleges as well as our adult schools, and we also have transition advisors from the adult schools. I think it's important to note where these specific positions come from, which we'll do in a future slide.
Felisa Vilaubi: So to Jenée's point about where these positions come from, one of the cool things that happened with us doing things like opening day presentations and getting the right people at the table to have communication conversations is that we now have new and existing community college positions that have adult school student support in their job titles. So for example, I am CAEP-funded. My position at De Anza is CAEP-funded. But we also have two other counselors that are in my program, one is partially CAEP-funded, and the other one isn't CAEP-funded at all. But her job title does include working with adult school students.
We have other positions like CTE coordinators that include adult school support in their job descriptions. And this is new, and it's really exciting. And it definitely has helped create visibility for our adult school students' needs. And that was an important transition that happened.
Janie Garcia: And then I just want to add that we're very proud of the work and the things that we've achieved. But we've also seen the issues that are existing in the way that we are made up. So we want to be an example for you of what not to do in some senses too, right? And so I would say that one of the things that we've learned is that having balance at the different campuses, especially if I'm speaking for community college, is really important.
My position and our success specialist in the outreach departments at Foothill College are very valuable resources for our students. But we don't have the equivalent at our De Anza College. We make do. I'm very proud of the work that we do, but for those of you who are newly starting this process, that is something to consider, the representation that you have at multiple campuses or at an entity that is central to your consortium or to your districts.
Felisa Vilaubi: So another thing that we have done was we work with faculty really closely in the community college side to see if they will do things like shelter seats for our students. If a student's interested in taking a class, we save some seats for our students. We also started doing things like offering specific courses just for adult school students, and we'll talk a little bit more about that. And so it's sections that are taught by folks specifically willing to be working with adult school students. And then the other kind of college buy-in and work that we've done is in our student support work group was actually where we created the special admit board policy proposal, and then we moved forward with it from there.
So in order for our board policy to be approved, we, like I just mentioned, created a draft in our student support work group. And then the folks at the community college then took that through shared governance spaces to get the buy-in from the community college. We had it approved by our academic senates, and then we had to place it on the agenda for a board meeting, obviously, showed up, presented.
And one of the things that's really important to note is that specifically that 2019 opening day workshop that we had where we had our board presidents and our college presidents and our chancellor, they had been waiting for this. At this point they were like, OK, so why hasn't it already happened? And so for them to have gotten that background made it a really easy thing for them to have just signed off and said, yeah, we're definitely needing to do this.
So this is our current board policy. It says, "Any student in an adult education program administered by a school district or a non-credit program administered by a community college district that is pursuing a high school diploma or high school equivalency certificate and receives the recommendation of the administrators of the student adult school or non-credit program of attendance is eligible to attend as a special part-time student." Jenée you want to take this one?
Janie Garcia: Sure. So definitely, collaboration is key. And so one of the things that we wanted to do is make sure that our colleges, especially considering that we're receiving these dual enrollment students, had a process that was central to the district, not just our individual colleges. So that required participating and collaborating with admissions and records.
I think that you definitely, especially as people who know more about adult populations, you need to advocate for your students, but also for yourselves to be at the table. And so we were happy that we were able to collaborate, because admissions and records have questions and concerns that they weren't able to answer on their own. And because of our experience and expertise, we were able to help with those factors and really eliminate as many barriers, not all of them, trust, but at least as many as we could through this process.
We also met with Deans of Enrollment Services in this process so they could be on the same page with us and make sure that their processes were affirmed through their admissions and records departments. We addressed any kind of issues, and then we also made sure that we were correct in the way that not only our students would apply to dual enrollment, but also how we would identify them within the application.
And then we use the banner system for our district, and we were able to suss out how we would code students in our system to make sure that they were not charged for their courses as they are able to take up to 11 units. We're in the quarter system, so it might be a little different for the semester system. But they're able to take a certain amount of units in the regular school year and then a slightly reduced amount of units in summer.
Felisa Vilaubi: And then the only other thing that I would add to this page is that-- so we have our board policy and then we have our academic policy, which is how we've implemented the board policy. And our AP says that as long as its student is coming from a CAEP-funded program, that we will allow them to participate in dual enrollment.
Janie Garcia: So again, we wanted to keep things district-wide. We have a special admit form, which is the form students can complete with the help of their adult school to A, make sure they have the approval from their adult school and the confirmation that they are currently enrolled in a CAEP-funded program. But it also has a form-- and we'll show this to you later, don't worry. And it also has a form that makes sure that the student understands the undertaking that they're going for, right?
We want to make sure our students are set up for success. We do not gatekeep. We want students to be encouraged to try classes at the community college from multiple programs and departments. But we also want to make sure that they understand what goes on their permanent record, for example. So that was a form to support our students as much as the bureaucratic process that we have to go through.
We also agreed upon a process for receiving the forms. We didn't want to continue with an education system reality of everything lives and leaves with one person. And so we created specific email accounts at our colleges to receive these forms so not just one person was receiving the form but actually a department for help of processing and not delaying anything involved.
And then, of course, we worked with the adult schools to make sure that they understand our process. What we do at the community college versus what they do at the adult school can be quite different. And so we really need to work to collaborate to make sure that we have a continued understanding of how to support our students because it does take all of us to do this work.
Felisa Vilaubi: So there's a question in chat that's super relevant right now. Yeah, so the student signs and then a school representative signs, and we'll show you the form later. But the reason that we wanted to make it clear that it's a school representative and not just a counselor's because sometimes we have counselors at the adult school, sometimes it's a transition advisor and it could be that as long as there's somebody from the adult school that is signing off on it and the student signs off, then they're good to go.
So the reality of it is that we know that we have to work together, right? We have, whether it's legislation or internal policies, sometimes really well intended but oftentimes at the community college side, like I will speak to this, having come from the adult schools and having had the flexibility to just do what you need to do to make it work for students when you got to the community college side, that was definitely a lot bigger, bureaucratic political policies that had to be navigated. And so it's really been that we needed to work together. And a lot of this then has fallen on the adult school side, right, in terms of holding students' hands, giving the feedback as to what it means to have supported them, and it wasn't successful, we need more of this.
And so we do understand that right now the burden is getting students college ready is falling on the adult schools, especially because right community colleges aren't able to offer remedial coursework, right? And so all of that, like getting them ready and having them hit the ground running to be successful in community colleges is really about the adult schools' ability to implement, and then what is it that the community college can do to support them in this endeavor?
Desirie Torres: So in terms of the adults--
Janie Garcia: Oh, this is not us, sorry.
Desirie Torres: Yeah, I got this one. So in terms of what the adult school is doing to outreach to students and let them know about the dual enrollment opportunity, we're definitely identifying courses that meet the needs of our student populations and help them to reach their goals. And so part of what we do here is it's a lot of individualized work. So we want to meet with the student, figure out what their goals are.
So for high school diploma students in particular, one way that we have leveraged the dual enrollment opportunity is to use it towards credit requirements. So for example, at our adult school, FUHSD, we do not have classes like fine arts and PE. And so in those cases, we'll figure out the courses that the students can take for free at the community college and it helps them to meet their diploma requirements. In addition to that, Raji, do you want to speak on the other programs?
Raji Visvanathan: Certainly. We also recruit from our parent education department. And one of the driving forces behind that was the statewide initiative for providing transitional kindergarten spots for all students that are eligible by 2025. This is going to demand another 26,000 educators in the early childhood education space. This includes classroom assistants as well as teacher assistants, et cetera.
And historically, the preschool that is associated with our adult school has always produced preschool teachers. They've already been using their time in the classroom as a great way to explore that as a career option. So our parent education department has a great interest. And in fact, last year a dominant portion of our students that were in the dual enrollment were from parent ed.
Desirie Torres: We also visited classes multiple times per school year, so just letting students know right as they enter our program that this is an opportunity that they can take advantage of. We provide several opportunities throughout the school year for our students to visit the community college campuses, meet the college counselors, and also join college workshops. We also have opportunities where the community college will visit our campus.
So for example, we had a De Anza Open Day where De Anza Community College welcomed their new students, but our students were invited to attend. And so I met some of my students there. We also had a community college information session. So we had both Foothill and De Anza Community Colleges share information about their programs and services to our students. And then we're going to follow up with an application workshop. So if they are interested in the dual enrollment opportunity, they can then come to the in-person application workshop.
Felisa Vilaubi: Can I just add one thing really quick about the idea or the example of the opening-- or the welcome day? So previously, and I will speak for De Anza is that they have marketed these things for current students, right? And so it gets sent out to students that have already applied that maybe are even taking classes. And we really try to change that narrative to be able to include adult school students that weren't even necessarily interested in community college at the time, right, to just expose them to it.
And so we will do as many of those things where we just invite them into, whether it's something like we have CTE-specific counselors on campus that do things like workshops, on resume building and how to find a job. And we just continue to invite our adult school students into these spaces that had previously been marketed just to current students just as a way to get them excited about school, to see what it looks like, to understand the opportunities, and that I think has really been a shift in how we've viewed bringing students in, and it's been really helpful for students.
Raji Visvanathan: And typically, with adult school students, they need to see things and hear about things on many different levels and many different opportunities. And so I think just having Desirie and myself visit the classroom is the first step. Second step would be following up with an email saying, hey, remember we came, this is what we talked about, here's the link to the form. Here's a QR code if you want to sign up. So typically, we follow this up with an in-person application workshop.
And I think we have one scheduled probably once in the fall. Yeah, once in the fall and then once again in the spring and multiple phone calls. People will email, I'm sorry I missed it. What was that about? So a lot of hand-holding, and in the initial stages, that is really where the work happens is in the trenches, just making sure that they understand what the requirements are oftentimes, like, well, you talked about this class and that class, but that's not what I want. What about this one? Can I do that? And I said, of course, just come to the workshop and put in your application.
And I think one of the biggest questions a lot of our students have is because of the nature of the demographics in our area, a lot of them are on different visa statuses, and they have questions about, well, is this eligible? Is this not eligible? I said, we won't know until you actually put your application in and bring evidence of your residence and how long you've lived here. And then once your application is in, we'll figure out and help you navigate the rest of the steps. So it's a lot of follow up, and that is also, for Desirie and I, stacks and stacks and stacks of emails, phone calls, spreadsheets, all of the above.
Desirie Torres: So in terms of how we track dual enrollment students, what happens is as soon as the student receives their campus wide ID number, they will fill out two forms, one, a Google form, which is where I track the information and Raji does as well in terms of where the student is in the process.
The second form that they fill out is the informed K12 form, which is the dual enrollment, also known as a special admit form. And so on this form, this is where the student agreements live. So they check off and agree to each of them and they also sign it. The automated IK12 form will get sent to me and then I can view what the student has agreed to, what class they want, and then I'm able to actually approve it and send it on to the community college, or I can send it back for corrections. At the next step, if I miss something and I send it to the community college, they can send it back to me and ask for corrections as well.
So the system is very student-friendly. It was a barrier that we identified pretty early on that students don't have scanners, that students were sending photos of the signed document. And in the process, it was a lot. So we identified pretty early on that we needed a workflow automation system. And so that's why we use form K12 and our students, again, are able to sign it, send it to me and no scanner needed. And then finally, the community college approves and registers the student into the course.
Felisa Vilaubi: Sorry, can I add one thing? So one of the cool things about having these designated folks at the community college side is that it helps navigate those very scary, big automated emails that go to students that are like, oh, you don't qualify, your visa says this, or all of these emails that look like another language for students, right?
And so we try to mitigate that by having me be the person or Janie be the person who's navigating those emails for them and then getting that information to Desirie to help with the student instead of them having to navigate that process by themselves. And I think that is another piece to Desirie's point that is super student-centric.
Raji Visvanathan: So last year was the first year that we had enough of participation from our adult school students that the data reporting was a little bit tricky. Desirie had to actually go into every single student's individual record and do the TOPS updates. This year we tried to do something different where we created a dual enrollment class for each category of students, whether that is an adult secondary education student, a CTE student, an ESL student or a parent debt.
So once the student was enrolled in the class and had been approved, that student would be added to the appropriate dual enrollment class in ASAP and then it was easy to do the updates from there and then get the information back into CASAS TOPS Pro. So this really helped us streamline the data reporting portion of it because that was an important piece of documenting and as well as getting credit for this work that is happening.
Desirie Torres: If the community college folks want to talk about this one.
Felisa Vilaubi: Sure, I'm happy to. So I think Janie mentioned this before, but the way that each one of our institutions has implemented and used their CAEP funding is unique to each one of the entities within our consortium. So there is this piece of outreach support for application workshops. While Janie is the person who would be going from Foothill, we often will include our outreach department at De Anza in addition to trying to make sure there's a counselor on site for these things to answer more specific questions.
I mentioned earlier, we sheltered spots for adult school students. So for an example, we have a non-credit computer information class that we saved five seats for students to be able to enroll so that by the time they got their applications in, they could still have space in the class. We've had careful enrollment in terms of outreach and counseling identifying barriers to enrollment, right, to streamline that process. How do we get them in?
I often will use the example of our students, if they don't know where to park, we'll lose them at the parking lot, right? They'll get there and they won't know what the next step is, and so we really try to do things like meet them where they're at, bring them in to see where the campus might be, where the class is. So when we can, we also add students to the courses manually. It's not always the case where we get to do that. But if it's a class that we have saved specifically for our group of students, we do try to have them manually enter.
And then we've also had to help with the California residency proof because it does in fact affect tuition free dual enrollment as well for residency and visa restrictions that we have learned and come up against. So yeah, the support on community college campus for the first day of online class, that's also a big one to make sure there's someone there to help them navigate things like canvas and entering into their portals. And then when we can and when there is funding, we also provide book vouchers for the students taking courses that aren't zero tuition or zero cost classes.
Janie Garcia: I just want to add in regard to the kind of aid with California residency proof and then also considering what resources students still have to pay for even though this is in theory a free program. You really do have to watch the promises that you make, and we've learned that the hard way, right? Is we're so excited to offer this free opportunity to come to our colleges and take free classes, but the truth is that depending on a visa that a student has and how long they've been living in California, there's still might be a cost associated with them taking this program.
It's not the same as paying tuition, but it's still a hefty price. And so you want to be wary of that. And unfortunately, the reality is that you're just going to learn things as you go. And so that's why we like to share this information with you. I do see some questions coming into the chat as well. In terms of who paid for the books, I believe?
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, so let me see if we can address some of these really quick. Book vouchers actually are being-- we have a list through our financial aid for-- I honestly cannot remember the name of the funding. I will try to find it out before the end of it. But there is funding for students to be able to use it, and so they will add them to that. If I reach out to financial aid, they say, yeah, they have got the money at the bookstore, so it's from the community college side.
We do work with-- so one of the things that we-- let me see if I can back up. The reason that we were so adamant about creating a special admit board policy and to allow our students to be dual enrolled was specifically to not have them start their college career and to then have them not be eligible for College Promise. So any time that we can get a student to be able to come in and access all of the resources that they have on campus we obviously want them to do so.
We also know that students in adult schools are often coming to us not being able to do full-time student status. EOP&S, for example, if there's a student who wanted to be enrolled with them and to get support through EOP&S, I'm happy to connect them as long as that student is ready to be a full-time student, right, which would be potentially different than dual enrollment. That might be when they get to us, same goes to something like Puente. Whatever we can do to have the student qualify for services on campus, we want to connect them with. For our students that are nontraditional, that don't take a full load, then we have other ways to get students to be supported on campus.
Janie Garcia: I just want to add that one of the things that we're doing as well with Foothill College specifically is our library has worked on a borrow program. So essentially, we're trying to have as many classes that we offer have their textbooks available at the library to be rented or checked out by students. And so going into your classes that are most popular with dual enrollment, as they come or however you need to do that, working with those instructors to find those resources or those departments, those deans, those are things that you can do proactively as well.
Felisa Vilaubi: And also we have had some students be able to buy the books that they needed for the course through our financial aid at De Anza. So there are some courses that have been identified as having loaners, and there are some where if a student takes a class and it's just them by themselves in a class, we've been able to support them by having book vouchers for them.
Raji Visvanathan: I also want to add one thing that oftentimes, we are looking at a cohort model, especially for the parent ed component-- pathway rather. And we try and introduce the cohort into a low stakes class, like it's a two-unit class usually, and we do have a set of books that we use for it. And that was a good incentive for people to try things. But once they tried that first class and we provided everything that they needed for it and they were interested in, they pursued it further, even though we continued to provide tuition free for the remainder of their dual enrollment status, they were happier to buy the books because they bought into the idea that this was a good career pathway to consider.
Desirie Torres: And in addition to that, if I know that a student has taken an individual course, I'll look for a zero cost textbook. And for a cohort of counseling five students, they all took it together and that course actually didn't have a textbook, so there was no cost for the student at all. So we always look for those things first.
Felisa Vilaubi: I'm going to answer the one last question that is in here and then we're going to try to move on and go back to questions. But De Anza specifically is currently in the process of doing a Rising Scholars Program for previously justice-involved students. And I work really closely with them as the adult ed person because oftentimes, students want to be able to get a high school diploma or a GED in that process. And so I connect them back and forth through these resources. But we are just in the process of creating that and implemented some of that for the first time this quarter.
Jenee Crayne: Before we move on, Neil had a question. How are you working through SB68 free tuition for non-residents?
Raji Visvanathan: So to my knowledge, we are continuing-- even with that, I think certain visa categories are not eligible, visitor visas and the others. And Linda says, I thought De Anza or not--
Felisa Vilaubi: So currently, Foothill, De Anza, if you are a non-resident, you can take up to six units and pay in state fees. For dual enrollment where we get into gray areas is if-- if it's an undocumented student, then that's easy. They're dual enrollment, they can take up to 11 units and it's not necessarily an issue. Where we get into it is that we do have some visa restrictions that for students that just aren't able to take higher ed classes at all, and that becomes, I think, where we've had the biggest sticking points. But if a student is dual enrolled, otherwise, then they're good to go.
Desirie Torres: So in terms of the adult school support, We know that our students are generally first generation college students or many of them are first time taking a college course in the US, and so there's a ton of support that's needed. So some of the things that we do on our end to provide that support is providing help with the initial application. So we don't just ask our students to just fill out the application. We have application workshops. I'm available one-on-one to help students with that as well.
We help with placement. So De Anza and Foothill Community Colleges both have different processes for ESL placement, so we help our students navigate through that. And then the individualized support with course selection, so like, based on the student's goal, what are they trying to achieve, we help them select the course based on that.
Our students do not have-- so they can take any community college course they want through dual enrollment as long as they meet the pre-reqs However, we notice that it's overwhelming for students. So we really want to provide direction and guidance through the process.
We also hired a tutor specifically for dual enrollment students. So the tutor that we hired is actually also a De Anza student, so she's very familiar with the LMS at the community college, which is Canvas. Our students are used to Schoology. So it's a completely different LMS, and so that was a barrier that we identified pretty early on. And so that's one way that we were trying to meet that need of our students.
We also established weekly check-in points with the tutor. So we realized, you know what, students were off to a great start and then two weeks in, we realized they didn't do any work, so we're like, we need a weekly check-in point with the tutor. And this is an early intervention.
So within the first week, if a student doesn't understand something or they need additional help, they have that person there every week to check in with. And we actually made this a requirement for our last cohort because we realize sometimes students just weren't asking for help. And so when we were finding out that they needed help, sometimes it was a little bit late, and so they were already in jeopardy of being dropped from the class and not passing it. So this is, again, an early intervention.
And then we do a lot of follow up with each student, so course details reminders. So like, your class is starting tomorrow. This is where it's at. This is where it's at on a map. This is where you should park. Parking is free. Every single detail really makes a difference in terms of the students' success, and they do need a ton of support, and so that's our job to do that. And so we're happy and willing to do the extra support needed there.
Raji Visvanathan: So one more thing I wanted to add, sorry, Felisa was for example, last night I was talking to our advanced ESL students. And one of the things that we encouraged them to do, we are fortunate to have an LMS that we use for our ESL students. And the Schoology is the name of the LMS that we use.
And the point that I would get across to the students was that if you are unable to navigate Schoology and do your asynchronous work in a consistent way, we try to model a lot of the offline activities that the students are required to do along the same lines as the community colleges in terms of having asynchronous work that the student has to complete on a consistent basis. And that really helps set them up in terms of expectation what is expected in a community college class, and that really helps.
Felisa Vilaubi: Another thing that the adult schools do, and Desirie is really good about this with her students, is she'll give me a heads up that a student has made an appointment or give me some background on the students. And I know that student's coming in, what's going on with them, and it makes it way less scary for students because I already know what's going on. And Desirie has also come to sessions, right, come to counseling appointments with students to also support them in that way as well. And I think all of those pieces are helpful for that.
Raji Visvanathan: There's a question from Kim Balart, asking, are there requirements or guidelines for what minimum participation is required to be considered actively pursuing their high school diploma or high school equivalency? And recommend them for dual enrollment. That's a really good question. So our high school diploma program is a little different in the sense that we have direct instruction classes. So they need to be showing up for class, regularly submitting work consistently.
So typically for our high school students, we do not encourage them to take any dual enrollment classes until they have completed at least half a semester with us. And then we'll talk to them about the idea of OK, what are our next steps? What else do you need? Here are some options for you to consider.
Desirie Torres: And in terms of the question of the minimum requirements, we do require them to be enrolled and attending one class. So they only need to be in one high school diploma or GED class.
Felisa Vilaubi: And it has to be CAEP-funded.
Desirie Torres: Yes.
Felisa Vilaubi: That's the other piece. It has to be a CAEP-funded program and at least in one class.
Raji Visvanathan: So the barriers that we encountered in, and by no means is an exhaustive list, students sometimes don't qualify due to their visa status. There are delays with some students receiving their college wide ID number. Sometimes it works really fast, and just when you're in a rush, that's when it takes three days. And certain classes, our community college partners have been kind enough to offer extra sections of, provided we meet the minimum enrollment required. That tends to be-- we may or may not get the 20 students that we need from our end to make the class go.
Also, since we have returning in-person courses, verification of vaccination status was needed, and that system doesn't always work as smoothly as we would like. And both community colleges have slightly different processes, so that's something that we help the students understand and navigate as well. So as I said, not an exhaustive list, but the list might look differently next year.
Janie Garcia: And if I could just add, I wanted to be clear. I know we did bring it up and it was said in the chat that this dual enrollment opportunity is available for students who are undocumented. However, what we've learned is that, as we all know, students are forthcoming and honest, and so there are certain visas and how long a student has been living in California that come up on the application process. And that then is where the barrier gets triggered. So it's almost as though an undocumented student has an easier time than someone who is coming forth with their documentation. So that's something that I wanted to clarify.
And then in terms of now being on the community college side and seeing the courses that are being added, the deans being engaged in this process, I do want to also just sing the praises of our adult school team here who have really persistently advocated for their students. And it's definitely not fair that so much of the onus is put on to adult ed. However, we've seen, especially with the amazing people that we work with, that that's how magic happens and so we're really appreciative.
Felisa Vilaubi: And I also want to clarify about the SB68. So it's AB540, SB68. So for our students that we're trying to get qualified for AB540 status, they can now use adult school time to be able to do that. And there's this whole formula of how many hours you can use for this, how many hours count for the class if they've taken one at the community college.
And so if there is a student where that's the case we have at least at De Anza, we have a program called HEFAS, which is Higher Education for AB540 students. And I work really closely with the coordinator there and our admissions and records folks to be able to make sure that those formula is and everything is documented so that we can get a student to qualify for in-state tuition.
Jenee Crayne: All right, we had another question and then we have a poll that actually has to do with barriers that Diana is going to put up here in one second. But it seemed like Joyce had a clarifying question maybe before we do the poll.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, so our ESL students as long as they're not taking the community interest, the fee-based classes can in fact qualify for our CAEP funding, they're CAEP-funded and they qualify for dual enrollment.
Raji Visvanathan: So do our CTE students who are looking to explore other pathways as well as our parent education, the K12 success category.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, and that is actually a really big distinction between our dual enrollment policies and others that have been implemented, especially after SB554. We actually really wanted to make sure that it was open to students that didn't meet that kind of very specific language in SB554. And so as long as, like I mentioned earlier, we've got a board policy and then we have our academic policies, which is how each college implements board policies and it's specifically clarified in there that it is for CAEP-funded students.
And so in our consortium, like Lori has mentioned in the chat, in our consortium that includes ESL, ASC, CTE, and K12 success, but we also allow for this to be something that students outside of our consortium can take advantage of. And so I then would work with the appropriate person in another consortium to be able to get a student to be able to be dual enrolled with their program. It's not just for the students that are in our consortium. So it could be a different CAEP-funded program in a different adult school consortium.
Jenee Crayne: We've been talking about some of the barriers that we've been facing. So we were interested in for those of you that are offering dual enrollment, what are some of the barriers that you have been facing? So Diana will put up a poll. Here we go. So what barriers do you face in offering dual enrollment? Policies stopping, course offering, student support, and if you do put another maybe, you can put what that other is in the chat for us all to be able to see. All right, we've got 100 answered. Oh, no.
Janie Garcia: Yeah, that confused me as well. It's counting 100% for the total people who have participated. But we have 76 currently and, of course, minus ourselves.
Jenee Crayne: Thank you.
Janie Garcia: Everything is math, and it's not my cup of tea.
Jenee Crayne: Well, we'll give it a few more. OK, I'll get on the poll and then we'll share the results. Is everyone able to see them?
Janie Garcia: Yes.
Jenee Crayne: OK, great. Thanks.
Janie Garcia: Please do feel free to share your other in the chat. That's going to not only help us but help everyone.
Jenee Crayne: And also too if anyone within their policy or staffing, course offering, student supportive, people want to come off mic and share maybe what some of those are. And if there's questions that maybe our team can help offer some support with that, please we can have a bit of a conversation right now about that.
Felisa Vilaubi: Especially because when I'm looking at this, I'm like, yes, we have had all of these as significant barriers. Yeah, I see that communication with students and between staff, including teachers and intake staff, et cetera. I think that that was something that we learned really early on was a big barrier, and it's taken-- I use Desirie as an example because we work really closely with their adult school.
And I think it must have taken us years to figure out what the right process to be able to communicate with students, make sure they weren't falling through the cracks, what it was they needed on our end at the community college side. And so those work groups that we have that are representative of the adult schools and the community colleges and then different roles within those institutions, right?
We've got deans that suddenly realized like, oh, I need to be able to create more space, for example, as a counselor, lots of other counselors on campus aren't doing outreach activities, right? They're not participating in work groups necessarily in our consortium. But my dean was like, yeah, we need you to create space in your schedule to do things like go out to the adult schools and talk to students. And it was that work of having everybody at the table that allowed for that kind of transition.
Janie Garcia: In the evenings as well, right?
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, evenings for sure.
Raji Visvanathan: Mostly in the evenings and it started probably with one or two students three-plus years ago.
Desirie Torres: Yeah. OK.
Jenee Crayne: Before we move on, if anyone feels comfortable putting any other of their barriers that they faced in the chat as we go on just so that we can take a look back and we can all learn from each other, that would be great, all right.
Desirie Torres: Oh, go ahead.
Felisa Vilaubi: Sorry, Jamie posted the calculator for AB540 and SB68. One of the things that we've learned in this process is if you are having a student that is doing something like dual enrolled or they're taking a class at the community college like a non-credit ESL class, for example, one of the things that we've learned on our end that they needed to have documented to be able to qualify those hours towards that calculation, they actually need to have the teacher write a statement that isn't just about unit amount, right?
If three units means X amount of hours, they actually need to say how many hours of class time it was. And it's way easier to get that while the student is in the class than it is to go back and try to get a teacher to be able to document that. But all of that kind of stuff helps in getting students qualified.
Janie Garcia: Do we have time for me to address another barrier that was put into the chat so just briefly? Yes, no?
Desirie Torres: Yes.
Janie Garcia: OK, I saw that Todd said we needed to simplify the college application documents and process, absolutely. One of our biggest barriers is Open CCC Apply. There is a non-credit version of the application. But upon doing an audit, our admissions and records showed that it just didn't really take any-- there's like maybe 10 minutes lost and that's about it.
I do want to highlight that other community colleges and other consortia are doing different things. For example, West Valley College, which is in our area, has a non-credit application embedded into their website. They essentially created a interactive application on their website that collected the data of their students. Again, this is only for non-credit students. And then they have a process to which they migrate that information over to Banner. So I don't know a lot about the process, but I am going to drop the link. So there are other examples out there that I wanted to highlight.
Raji Visvanathan: I have seen that one too.
Felisa Vilaubi: And for folks that say things like other is implementing some of the great ideas, I can speak for myself, I know that Janie's done this in the past as well, but we've met with folks after the presentation to be able to reach out and say, can you walk me through how you did this? Can you support us in this? Can you break this down to my supervisor? We've been happy to do that as well.
Like Janie mentioned at the beginning of this presentation, we are really excited about the work we've done. We are really proud of it, and we're happy to help anybody else implement this in any capacity that we can. So if you wanted to have us talk to anybody or help anybody implement anything, we are happy to do so.
Desirie Torres: So taking a look back at the data from this last school year, in winter quarter, we had about 40 adult school students taking a dual enrollment course. In spring quarter, we had 45 adult school students taking a community college course through dual enrollment. And it's important to note that the number of students that actually applied is much higher. However, between visa restrictions and the in-person or hybrid classes requiring vaccination status, some students were not able to continue.
Raji Visvanathan: Additionally, also the spring quarter goes in a little bit later than it ends after our school year. So that was a barrier for a lot of people that were, kind of, OK, this is my first summer off. I'm going to go do something else. So we did pull them endlessly, and most of the feedback was very, very useful. They were happy to see the possibilities.
I think depending on which student segment we were looking at, I think the parent ed folks are coming from a highly educated background and this was their first attempt at taking a class in the United States. They were successful and they appreciated the opportunity. For our high school diploma and high school equivalency students, this was an opportunity to test their feet in terms of what am I capable of? And I think it was a roaring success.
I think the retention rate from the summer counseling five class going on towards college was pretty decent continuing at community college. Dual enrollment was the best thing for people who want to go to community college. I think that was a great reflection. Class is wonderful, highly recommended. This was the introductory class we offered about positive discipline. And this is an important class to take if you want to work with children and understand children. So that was the feedback from the parent ed component.
And the questions, if a student have a high school diploma from another country, are they able to participate? It depends on how they are enrolled at our adult school. So they may likely be either in the ESL classes or they may be in the CTE classes. Certainly, they may also be taking a GED class if that's what they want to do once they're here. So I don't think that was a barrier to their eligibility. They only had to meet the requirement of being a successfully enrolled student in a CAEP class.
Janie Garcia: And then in terms of the community college side, we don't require a high school diploma or GED in order to take a class. There are some programs, for example, Foothill College's radiologic technology program would require a high school diploma or GED as a prerequisite. But these students who are not fully matriculated yet are able to take classes in a one-off type of way even though they might be on a pathway.
And then dual enrollment and getting introduced to college is a great way for them to identify what programs are interested in, and we're able to work with them on the prerequisite. So if they are going to reach that as an eventual barrier, it's almost like a proactive approach.
Desirie Torres: So on this next slide, we received some teacher feedback. So Helen Pang is a CTE counselor at De Anza College, and she was willing to take on an entire class of adult school students who wanted to take introduction to college counseling course together. And so after the first day of class, she sent me the feedback on how it went.
And I think it just highlights the collaboration between the community college and the adult school. And also it's really helpful for us to figure out what kind of support students need, so like the check end point after that first day. So she mentions here that even though we sent the map and did all of those support pieces, some students still have trouble finding the classroom. So that really helps us to identify what kind of extra support they need in what area.
Raji Visvanathan: And as I mentioned earlier, we surveyed our students and the survey results said that 90% of them will continue at the community college after leaving the adult school, which was one of the overarching objectives in creating this program. And the follow-up from the spring cohort, 70% of them are still attending community college. So again, we met our objectives. And now, questions.
Felisa Vilaubi: I also want to clarify, so we started with that counseling five class that we did in the spring, and we're also working on now surveying students in the adult schools to see if that is even the appropriate class, right? This isn't just a, we figured it out, we're done, right? It's this kind of constant conversation as to like, was that the best option? Is one of our career life planning classes better? Is there a humor class that might make more sense, right? We're really trying to figure out what it is that we can do to meet students' needs.
And so yes, we started with it and it was great data, but maybe there's a better class, right? So how do we continue to make sure that we're meeting student needs. It's always a journey, right? We haven't reached a destination. We are on a journey, and so we're proud of that.
Jenee Crayne: I see Andrea you have your hand up.
Andrea: Hi, yes. Thank you for presenting all your information. It's really helpful and interesting. We're doing something similar here at Sweetwater and Southwestern College in the South San Diego area. But you're doing some things quite differently and I'm really curious.
For example, the ASAP, having classes where you're doing a TOPS form and you're putting students in your ASAP. So does that mean you're actually taking attendance as well? So the students are taking classes at the college, but then you're also adding them in ASAP and adding that class in ASAP and so the student is also attending at the adult school. Is that correct?
Raji Visvanathan: No, the intention of that ASAP class is to make the updates easier for us to do on their goals. So once they have completed a class, or they have transitioned, or they have taken a credit class, moved into credit bearing, that is the class that we use to make those updates because their actual CAEP class enrollment could be all over the place.
Desirie Torres: So we-- oh, go ahead. Sorry, I just wanted to mention, so we use it as a placeholder, but we don't track attendance in there. It's just noting that the student is a dual enrollment student, excuse me.
Andrea: OK, thank you.
Raji Visvanathan: And those ASAP students are from the adult school, correct. So that way it was easy to bring all of that into TOPS.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, and like we mentioned before, here's our contact information. And please reach out if you want help clarifying anything, communicating with anybody. We're really happy to support people in this.
Jenee Crayne: I think Diana will post the slide deck in the chat one more time for those who might not have seen it. Thank you, Diana for all your support.
Janie Garcia: And then I apologize if I missed it, but did we address the question from Neal? Are those ASAP students from the adult school? That was correct. And then I did just want to add that in terms of what we've dealt with at the community college, that is another issue that we've experienced. And that is in this process of helping adult school students transition to community college, our data wasn't really supporting us, right?
And so for our district we have had a data tool be created in order to track our students, and not only that they're coming from the adult schools, but also what programs that are most popular that they're attending, where the success is happening in their classes, what programs they're coming from that they were in at the adult school. So there is a level of data that is lacking in this process. And our state is promising us that things will happen, especially on Open CCC Apply, but things move slowly. So that's another thing to consider in terms of how you build things within your consortium to support this work in terms of being data driven.
Raji Visvanathan: Hey, adding the adult school names to the dropdown menu for the students when they first apply to the community colleges, that was the initial first step. So that was another tool for tracking.
Janie Garcia: Absolutely. And if your adult school does not have a seep code, that is definitely a great step for you to be able to be added to essentially the dropdown list on CCC application to be able to have students say that they've attended to-- sorry, this has been hard, attended adult school.
Jenee Crayne: I was just wondering for the four of you if-- because this presentation is built upon our presentation that we gave at the last year summit, which really just focused on the policy and how we were able to implement the dual enrollment in this way. And this year was, are the lessons that we've learned for actually on the ground implementing it?
So I was wondering if the four of you wanted to take a moment just to say like, OK, well, then what are we focusing on to scale this up? And also two, I like how Raji said in one of our planning meetings, sort of, make it institutionalize it in our consortium. And so I was wondering if maybe we wanted to just have a small little conversation about where we're going with this and how we're thinking of growing it.
Janie Garcia: I'm happy to chime in and say that as the adult ed program coordinator at Foothill College, my focus this academic year and beyond, things take time, will be to focus more on CTE pathways and providing those opportunities for our students. I think we've done a good job with ESL. But it's really time to take especially our parenting ed at the adult school into the pathway of child development, which we've been able to see be quite successful in these recent semesters.
Using that as a model and creating more opportunities like that, one thing we've always acknowledged in this work is that our students are so individualized that there is no one program that saves us all. And sometimes in the education system we often play gatekeepers inadvertently by only providing certain programs. And so I'm so excited, at least on my end, to have this example, to know what works, to know what we've learned and want to do better or differently and taking that and just multiplying it.
Raji Visvanathan: And I can speak to a little bit in terms of what we are doing to explore the edges of the possibilities. One of the programs that we offer at our adult school is a health care interpreter certificate. And the way we've been able to leverage that offering with co-enrolling some of the students in a dual enrollment capacity.
De Anza college offers a certificate in Mandarin interpreting. And Mandarin is a language that's in very strong demand in the local area. And this is a great added benefit for the student to have that certificate from a community college on their resume in addition to getting certified. So that's the one way we're leveraging it.
Another way is to explore a different allied health pathways. We offer terminology classes at our adult school. And those students are encouraged to have an exploratory, what health career may be useful for my personality type kind of class that is offered at both colleges. And that's an extraordinarily successful way for the student to say, OK, I'm successful in terminology, but I am also able to see possibilities in other areas.
And one other thing also is we have a nursing program at our adult school CNA classes. And those students, a fair number of them go on to an LVN program because our CNA is articulated with a different community college. And they are able to complete some of their LVN prerequisites while they're with us taking CNA and medical terminology. And that puts them ahead of the game in terms of applying for these programs that are highly competitive.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, I think for me, there's a couple of things. One is I think it would benefit-- we're really good at this point about trying to utilize our dual enrollment. And I think we've done a really good job of trying to get more and more community college folks to understand the importance of that.
Having come from the adult school, it was easy for me to understand what the need was for these students coming to the adult school into community college. That's not the case for a lot of community college faculty and staff. And so a lot of what we've done is just, kind of, define who an adult school student is, what they can benefit from. And the more we do that, the more we get folks to be on board, right?
So at Foothill, they had started doing things like making it accessible for ESL. We are behind on that. We're now getting our ESL faculty to really be engaged and to really create pathways in and to offer classes that don't have the prerequisites or needing to take in a placement test. These are all things that are really awesome.
I would love for us to be able to start doing more articulation with courses from the adult schools so that they can get a lot of the credit and things done on the adult school side and then get credit for it over at De Anza and at Foothill. That's definitely a space that we are not necessarily as robust in. It'd be awesome if we could do that. And again, these things often take time, so I think we'll get there. But right now being able to utilize dual enrollment has helped close that gap.
Jenee Crayne: Well, thank you all for joining us this morning. And thank you, Desirie, and Janie, and Felisa, and Raji so much for all of your expertise and for presenting this morning. So we will stay on. We have a few more minutes, so we'll stay on if anyone wants to come off mic and ask some questions. We'll still be here. But if not, then yeah, enjoy the rest of the summit. Maybe you'll get to pop in at the end of someone else's presentation right now.
Patricia Hernandez: I would like to ask because it was already a question here about people who have high school diplomas in their own country, they're coming here. Do they have to be on a GED or a high school diploma process here? Or can they have arrived, they're going to need to take the GED, something to equate, but would they be eligible to be dual enrollment?
I'm thinking of people who have preparation in their own country. They might be a dentist and they're not going to be a dentist here as yet, but they could be working on their GED just to get the equivalency and they're going to do ESL but they could try some of the beginning classes, I would assume in dental, the hygienist, the bottom level. Is that possible to combine or no?
Raji Visvanathan: As long as they're enrolled in an eligible CAEP class, whether that's a GED class or ESL class, they will be eligible for the dual enrollment program.
Patricia Hernandez: Because what I saw when I was looking-- I missed the beginning of the PowerPoint and I'm really sorry. But it said that the students need to be pursuing a high school diploma or a high school equivalency certificate. So were you able to extend that to just anybody who's in an adult ed class? Is that possible?
Raji Visvanathan: Yes, that was the board decision to do that. Go ahead, Felisa.
Patricia Hernandez: I said something-- it was interesting. I asked our own consortium, right? I'm from Santa Monica, Malibu. And so I made the question and they said, no. So is there a split within community colleges or people who are doing dual enrollment?
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, so we learned in 2015 that who is considered a special admit, which is who qualifies for dual enrollment is a local board decision. So it's up to the-- so De Anza, Foothill, we put together board policy. We said we want adult school students to be able to do this. And this is before SB554.
So what happened then with SB554 is it legitimized the work we were doing, and it clarified that the policy at the SB554 level is that students who are working on a high school equivalency or high school diploma qualify and should qualify and our school district should implement this as a special admit policy, done.
But because we had done this before and we believed really strongly in it being something accessible to adult school students outside of that narrow idea, we have our board policy and then we have our implementation of it at the colleges, which is specific to CAEP-funded because it is in fact specific to each local board who they consider as special admit.
Patricia Hernandez: So what you're saying, though, is that the groundwork was done prior. In other words, you address the board and said, if we could amplify or include just general upstanding ESL students or just an adult ed student actually.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, as long as they are CAEP-funded. That was how we decided to implement it, right, because the idea behind it is for students that are not necessarily in community education and doing fee-based classes, right? This is really to support students that are trying to have a transition into community college.
Patricia Hernandez: Exactly.
Felisa Vilaubi: Sorry?
Patricia Hernandez: Exactly. No, no, I agree there.
Felisa Vilaubi: So we decided internally that that was what we wanted to do. And so as long as they are capable, there's a little section on our dual enrollment form that says, what CAEP program are you in? And that becomes the qualifying piece.
Patricia Hernandez: Excellent, yeah. But you can see I was just struck. My feeling was that when I asked the people in the community college side, it was like they were hands off what we're trying to do. And this is a good thing too to get people who are struggling with their high school diploma and get them so that they're started, they can see their vision, they can see the--
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, definitely.
Patricia Hernandez: But a broader vision because I've worked a lot more with people who have come here with good preparation but their language skills are zero. And it just seemed to me that this is a good way also for them to make this, to get their feet wet because they have a long row to hoe anyway.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, so far one of the things that happened when I-- so I actually was a high school counselor. I went from high school counseling into adult schools and then into community college. And when I got to the adult schools, I had utilized dual enrollment for high school students dozens of times, and it had been really a proven effective method. And so I got to the adult schools and I immediately was working with our consortium. I was working with De Anza and Foothill, and I got pushback from every corner. It was like, oh no, adult school students can't be dual enrolled.
Patricia Hernandez: So what did you do? Because that's what I got-- I was surprised.
Felisa Vilaubi: So we took Ed Code to the board. We took the education code that says, it's a local board decision. Here's the language. Here's where you can find it. And then we created that around our board policy so that when we went to the board with it, they were just like, yeah, fine, this makes sense.
Patricia Hernandez: All right, now who's talking to me so that I can contact you later?
Felisa Vilaubi: This is Felisa.
Patricia Hernandez: All right, Felisa. OK, good, all right.
Jenee Crayne: And Diane has her hand up as well. And then also to-- oh, she put something in the chat. But Patricia, I'm not sure if you-- I know you said you popped in a little bit after. But we did put the slide presentation in the chat that you can download.
Patricia Hernandez: Yes, that's where got the information about--
Jenee Crayne: OK, fantastic.
Patricia Hernandez: That's what said. I read that slide and I thought, oh, that's not all inclusive. That's just high school. It's traditional.
Jenee Crayne: And reach out to Felisa or myself. My name is Jenée. I'm the Director of the Consortium. Our presentation last year was strictly on how Foothill and De Anza did this. So we have a whole other presentation that just focuses on what you're asking right now.
Patricia Hernandez: Wonderful.
Jenee Crayne: Yeah, OK and then Diane.
Patricia Hernandez: And it's nice to know that you survived the pushback too.
Jenee Crayne: Diane.
Diane Edwards: Yeah, thank you. I'm loving this presentation. We're just in the infancy of getting our SB554 off the ground and running into all the obstacles you described. But I also wanted to chime in about the internationally trained professionals.
So individuals who have their bachelor's degree outside of the US and are very honest when they complete our CCCApply application, while locally it may not impact them because our boards might say, yes, go ahead, enroll in equivalency at adult school and come in and take classes at the community college, that CCCApply application follows them and can negatively impact them in terms of their long-term goals.
So when we're doing this work, I think it's important that we're not just looking at the short-term opportunity of getting in and taking some community colleges but really working with the students to find out, what are your long-term goals and making sure that these interventions, while may be helpful to them in the short-term are not going to negatively impact them long term.
I teach a class at Southwestern College in non-credit on how to use your foreign degree, your international degree in the US. And one of the things that sometimes happens, and I'm in student services, sometimes our best intentions are be helpful to students. And so we think that means get enrolled in classes.
But for a majority of people with international degrees, they don't need to take a GED. They don't need to take community college classes. Perhaps they need to work on English, maybe taking a class in their career area that's taught in English that helps them build that professional vocabulary. But there are many more options for internationally trained adults.
And Emma Diaz from San Bernardino just completed her dissertation on this and speaks about it at different community college conferences. But it can be a great first step, but let's just be really careful that we're not setting them up for some negative impacts, including things like financial aid and other opportunities down the road.
Jenee Crayne: Do we have any-- I'm interested for our students that have the advanced degrees from other countries. Do we have a procedure for that to, I don't know, maybe mitigate these unintentional negative consequences. I'm just curious from our perspective.
Raji Visvanathan: So it depends on their objectives. And as Desirie and I mentioned, they're highly individualized. I think for our K12 students they are interested in perhaps exploring a career in early childhood education because even though they may have advanced degrees from outside the country, they are interested in perhaps changing roles and finding a second career as an early childhood educator or as a school teacher, primarily because it then allows them to have the same or similar hours as their children when they're school-going. And that drives them towards this career as a choice.
And for those classes, in my experience, they are all going to be continuing as a paying resident fees after they leave us if they're continuing to complete their certificate, whatever that might be, whether it's a teacher assistant or a preschool teacher or so forth. So far-- I am one of them. I finished-- I was a K12 student at our adult school and decided to take on early childhood education, came back and taught for many years at the preschool. So I haven't seen any negative impacts yet. Certainly, for our adult high school diploma students, I think it doesn't activate the College Promise.
Desirie Torres: No, it doesn't.
Raji Visvanathan: Yeah, being in the dual enrollment special admit category. So they are protected from that.
Felisa Vilaubi: We also work with our international student's program on campus. If students have questions about their visa switching and/or impacts of any of those kinds of situations, we will work with international students to make sure that they understand what the implications might be. And we refer them to experts to make sure that we aren't doing things like negatively impacting them.
Raji Visvanathan: Yeah, and also Upwardly Global is a really good outside resource. They specialize in providing advice for professionally, like nurses, for example, from other countries. They always want to go back to their profession. And they have a lot of resources that we put them in touch with. And we also focus on vocabulary, as you mentioned, Diane is what they need. They need the vocabulary of their expertise, and that is their number one priority. And certainly-- go ahead.
Jenee Crayne: I'm sorry. No, no, no, I'm interrupting. I'm sorry. Go on.
Raji Visvanathan: I think like, for example, medical professionals enjoy our medical terminology class a lot because all they want is the vocabulary. And our class is fairly in-depth. It goes over two semesters, and additionally, if they want to explore other things, they're able to. But it's not something that is for everyone certainly.
Jenee Crayne: Hi, Ted. I saw that you came off camera. Is there any other further information that you wanted to get from our panel? Oh, you're on mute.
Ted: Oh, no, not really. Thank you. Thank you. I'm enjoying the session. Thanks a lot.
Jenee Crayne: Well, what school are you from or consortium are you from?
Ted: No, I'm just an exhibitor with coaching for better learning.
Jenee Crayne: OK. All right, well, there's six more minutes left. Are there any other more questions, or comments, final parting words?
Felisa Vilaubi: The only thing that I would say is that to-- I can't remember the woman's name who mentioned this earlier, but we have had all of the obstacles that we have tried to navigate, and we've overcome and it's taken us years. And it just to keep going because when you're in it, it feels like you're not making any progress, and it feels really frustrating. And then suddenly, you look back and you realize that you started this process in 2015 and we are now where we are and we're really proud of that. But it does feel often like you're not making progress.
And so remember that there is light at the end of the tunnel, right, and that this is a journey. It's not a destination, right? This is a kind of constant devaluation of our practices and what we need to do to meet student needs. And I think that those are just really important reminders.
Raji Visvanathan: Yeah, I think in an empirical sense, it sounds like easing transitions from adult school to community college. And there's so much that fits under that overarching objective that all consortia have. And this is the work that goes into it.
Felisa Vilaubi: We have a question.
Jenee Crayne: Sherryl.
Sherryl Carter: Hi, good morning. I just have a question regarding once a student has applied, have you experienced that they've received a hold from admissions and record?
Felisa Vilaubi: Oh, yeah. Oh, it happens all the time, whether it's a student has applied previously and they forgot they had submitted application so they already have a CW ID, that happens all the time. And so they never received their CW ID. We have to go figure it out. There's a hold for residency, they need to submit X, Y, and Z. And so that's the biggest piece about having someone like Janie and I designated that the community colleges to be that person to translate in between the community college policy and bureaucracy back to Desirie.
So Desirie will send me a message saying, hey, this student is having a hard time enrolling. I go in, I talk directly to admissions and records, or I check their dashboard myself, and it says, yeah, here are the things we need and then we walk the student through it together, right? So because that happens all the time and it is super frustrating, and students will look at that and that's the reason they don't continue, right? That's the reason. It's like, that was too much today, and they're not going to follow through. But if we help mitigate that and we make it less scary, right, then it's a lot easier to be able to help them navigate that.
Jenee Crayne: And I think-- sorry, go on.
Janie Garcia: I'm going to add to that. Definitely access, whether it's through somebody in admissions records at the college side or someone like me at Foothill, I actually go into our data system and am able to look up details on holds. I have made it a process for the way I process photo college dual enrollment paperwork that if any student is labeled by their application submission as non-resident, I just automatically go in and look at their documentation so I can understand what the next barrier might be.
We're always hopeful that it's not, and it's OK. You're a non-resident, but it doesn't matter. You're still going to participate in this program. But unfortunately, sometimes their documentation might have them do another step like applying for California residency because they have been in the state for a year or it requires us to give them the details of what they would have to pay if they want to continue the program.
Felisa Vilaubi: We're having a huge amount of students that are being flagged for fraudulent accounts. And so oftentimes, it's a student that just gets flagged as they're submitting their application for having been a fraudulent account, and I just have to submit a picture of their driver's license or their California ID and that lists it. But when you look at the messaging that's coming from our admissions and records, it's not necessarily that clear. And so it is our job then to help make sure that we know exactly what they need to deal with that hold.
Jenee Crayne: We only have a few more minutes so Todd does have his hand up. So I do want to make sure that he gets a chance to ask his question. Sorry for interrupting you, Raji.
Raji Visvanathan: No problem.
Todd: Sorry, thank you. I was just going to make the comment, excellent presentation, all of the barrier talk and walking people through the process. One of the things I learned, and I've got to do it on several levels even with other programs where we're trying to get people through is whenever you talk to somebody else that isn't familiar with adult data about these programs, in this case, this dual enrollment, they often assume that when you're walking our students through the process to reduce the barriers, they somehow equate that with well, if they can't do that, how are they going to be successful in the college.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, absolutely.
Todd: And I say, you don't understand. Take my word for it. Once we get them in, they're going to flourish. And yeah, I have to remind everybody not associated with adult ed when it comes to that. So I just wanted to share that. Don't give up because of that. But that's something you have to be mindful of. Others just don't get it sometimes [audio out] presentation.
Janie Garcia: And the truth is that there is no student who would not benefit from the support. There's just a lack of bandwidth for us to be able to provide this for everybody, right? It's like anybody in here saying, no, I don't need $100. Keep it. It's fine. That's not a thing. So thank you for saying that.
Jenee Crayne: And I also think when we look about how do we want to institutionalize this across our whole consortium, and how do we want to scale this? Those are things that we have to think about, because we have these wonderful relationships between Felisa, and Desirie, and Raji, and Janie. But when those people move on or with the turnover, it's like we can't have those connections be lost just because we have people move into different positions.
And so I think that that's something that we're thinking about is, how can we create systems to help support this, right? So that when we get new people in these positions of these four people, we don't lose the great work that we've been doing. So that's definitely something that's a focal point for us.
Felisa Vilaubi: Yeah, I often tell students and faculty alike that I feel genuinely like 75% of being successful in college is learning how to navigate the system, right? It's not necessarily about a student's ability to read a textbook and analyze it. It's about have you figured out how to navigate these systems that are unintentionally, hopefully, unintentionally, barriers for students, right?
And so I have to remind faculty of that all the time because to your point, Todd, it's one of those things where it's like, well, they can't do this and it's like, no, this is a very complicated system you just haven't had to do it for so long that you forget what that's like to have been a student yourself. And that's definitely a conversation that we have to have frequently, and so I appreciate that reminder.
Jenee Crayne: All right, well, it's 1 minute pass, so I just want to say thank you to our presenters this morning. The work that you're all doing is just, as Dianne said, it's inspiring. And so thank you and thank you for being willing again to present. And hopefully, next year we'll have our next steps and how we've built upon the work that we're doing now to share with our colleagues across the state.
Raji Visvanathan: And the evaluation link is in the chat. So if you haven't done so yet, please do take a minute to fill it out please.
Janie Garcia: And we encourage you all to do presentations like this as well. We all learn from each other.
Mandilee Gonzales: Yeah, thank you, everyone. Thank you for participating. And I hope everyone has a great day
Sherryl Carter: Thank you.