Lori Howard: Welcome, everyone, to The Whys and Hows of EL Civics Needs Assessment. My name is Lori Howard. I'm the CASAS program specialist coordinator, and I'm thrilled to be with you here today to talk about your Civics Needs Assessment.

And I am putting in the link-- I'm sorry-- putting in the chat the link to these slides. There's also a QR code on your first slide there that you can see. And when you get the slides, the link over here on the left goes to a folder with the slides and a lot of the examples I'm going to show you today. So there's not just slides in the folder. There are other resources as well.

So let's get started, and thank you, Mandlee, for helping us today. I appreciate it.

So our goals and objectives for today-- by the end of this session, you'll be able to identify the purpose of the EL Civics Student Community Needs Assessment, and identify best practices of this kind of Student Needs Assessment, and then identify some resources so that you can successfully implement the Needs Assessment at your agency.

So let's start off by thinking about yourself, doing a little bit of self-reflection. How would you characterize your understanding of EL Civics Student Community Needs Assessment? You can do this on a little piece of paper next to you. You don't have to put it in the chat or let me in any way.

But think to yourself. Rate yourself from 1 to 5. I don't know much about EL Civics Student Community Needs Assessment, or I'm an expert. Just put a little number on a piece of scrap paper as we get started here so that you can consider this while you're going on. And hopefully by the end, this number will have changed.

So let's start out with why California does EL Civics. So EL Civics-- the original name was English Literacy and Civics Education. We still use that term. However, the federal grant, where this money comes from, is now called Integrated English Literacy and Civics Education, or IELCE. We use those initials a little bit differently in California, but you should know that that's the true name of our program.

It started in about 2000, again, when California got about $20 million. And at that time, we were doing competency-based education, where students were able to learn about the competencies of everyday adult life. And we wanted to continue that, but also be able to assess it in a way that let us know that students actually could get along in life outside the classroom.

And so we decided to put in place a performance-based assessment system to be able to evaluate how learners use the language and measure their success in the community, and then connect learners to the workplace as well, as these moneys emphasized workplace skills. So that's where we're coming from.

And also, a big part of this was needs assessment. We didn't want to just teach what was in the book but what students wanted to learn, because we imagined and felt pretty certain that, if students were learning what they wanted to learn and what they needed to learn, they would be more apt to come to school, learn it, and then successfully use it in the outside world.

So these are the requirements of our Civic Participation and IELCE programs in California. Again, Civic Participation is 231 funded. You may have heard it. Don't worry if you haven't. And the IELCE we use in California as our workplace funding.

And so these are the seven steps to California EL Civics, but the first one is develop and administer a school community student needs assessment and a requirement to complete a summary form and keep it on file in your agency in case you are asked about it by your CDE consultant or someone else. So that's what we're going to talk about today, the first step in implementing EL Civics at your agency.

So why do we do it? Why do we do Student Community Needs Assessment? And that's because research has shown that successful programs continually assess the needs, interests, and language skills of their learners, and so really important. So that's why this is a yearly requirement in California. You may want to do it every semester, but the requirement is a yearly Needs Assessment for EL Civics.

So I'm going to show you an example of what a Needs Assessment could be. So this happens to be one from Fremont Adult and Continuing Education, and Ana de Moraes shared it with us. And they use a-- I think it's a Google Doc here. It's electronic, in any case. It's for Beginning Low students, so you can imagine it's picture based. But it does have some words.

So for 2022, '23, the Needs Assessment for Beginning Low-- they require an email account, which I'm sure they teach their students to do. And then please choose six. And then the student just checks the things they want to learn. There are more than six, but this is all I could show you at this point. But the student can look at the picture or look at the word and choose six they're interested in. So that's an example of a Beginning Low Needs Assessment, again, picture based.

So let's talk a little bit more about Needs Assessment. I wanted you to have an example before we started. So talking about the requirement a little bit more-- so here, let me get my little annotator here to help you.

So the requirement is a yearly School Community Needs Assessment, and agencies assess needs in General Civic Participation topics for the 231 funded programs. That's regular Civic Participation. And if your agency is also funded for 243 Workforce, then you should also do a Workforce-related needs assessment.

Our employment can be part of the General Civic Participation. So if your students are at the lower level or aren't necessarily getting a job right away, you can include employment in the General Civic Participation ones. But if you're actually going to do training, as you would do for 243 funds, then you need a separate needs assessment for those learners as well. And we'll talk about that more at the end of the presentation.

So right now, we're going to be spending most of our time talking about the General Civic Participation Needs Assessment. And the results of this needs assessment inform the selection of the COAAP, so you must do the needs assessment before you select your COAAPs. So we usually suggest that you do it in the spring.

At least, when agencies were working in the summer, agencies would do the need assessment in the spring, have an idea of what they were going to select so work on instructional materials during the summer, and then be ready for the fall. You can do it any time of year, as long as it informs your selection of COAAPs, civic objectives, and additional assessment plans.

So again, talking about the two kinds of needs assessment, the General Needs Assessment assesses the needs of the student community as a whole. So if you have 500 students, we'd like you to try to assess all of them. But we understand that you may not get everyone to participate. But hopefully, the majority of your English learners who are participating in EL Civics would participate in this needs assessment.

And you want to ask them what information they want to learn or need to learn because of their situation. So if they're a parent, they might be interested in learning about either parenting skills or schools that their students go to, those kinds of things. And those students who are participating in employment, we want to ask them what priority job and training needs exist in the area. Actually, you're not asking the student that. You're asking yourself that.

And then, once you figure that out, what priority jobs and training needs exist in your area, and you decide which you're going to be putting in place at your agency, then you ask your students which career pathway they want to follow. So the goal is a little bit different in the Workforce Training Needs Assessment, and we'll talk about that towards the end of the presentation.

There's also an optional Classroom Needs Assessment. So once you've done the larger Community Needs Assessment, you might-- and let's say you choose three Civic Objectives or COAAPs, Civic Objectives and Additional Assessment Plans, it's possible that the teacher at the beginning of the semester offer those three to the students and say, which of these would you like to study? So it's possible to do a Classroom Needs Assessment as well.

Some schools just say, the whole school is going to do all three of these. We're all going to do number one in the fall. We're going to do number two in the winter, and number three in the spring. Some schools do it that way. Again, it's up to your agency how you teach the COAAPs and when you teach them. But if you want to give choice to specific students, you can do this optional needs assessment in the classroom.

So needs assessments can be done on paper, but a lot of people are doing them online these days, Survey Monkey, Google Forms, et cetera. Probably be easier for tabulation to do it online, and, also, you would be giving your students some much needed and wanted electronic technology digital literacy.

So our suggestion is that you choose two to four Civic Objectives from each of the seven competency areas. So here's a link when you get the slides to the Pre-Approved Civic Objectives List, and I can take you there later in the presentation. But there are seven competency areas. The last one is Workforce Training, so I won't put that one here, because that should be part, really, of your Workplace Needs Assessment.

But we have in the general area Consumer Economics, Community Resources, Health, Government and Law, Transition, and Employment. So Employment would be the general employment skills, how to get a job and keep a job, soft skills, those kinds of things.

So you should offer each of these six areas to your students so that they have a choice of the complexity of adult life and have all of these topic areas. And you, as an informed coordinator, or teacher, or group of teachers, would select two to four Civic Objectives you think your students would be interested in learning about. And you could put those on your needs assessment.

In that way, your needs assessment would include approximately 12 to 24 Civic Objectives. If you're dealing with Beginning Low students, you might want to limit it to 12. If you're dealing with advanced students, they could deal with 24. So I wouldn't suggest you give a Beginning Low student 24 choices. I think it would be quite overwhelming. So think about that when you make your needs assessment. So that's what I talked about here.

OK, and here are some samples Civic Objectives. So in Consumer Economics, access community or commercial agencies to resolve a consumer complaint. In Health, number 26, is accessing low-cost medical and dental and other health care services. 45 is about the legal system and individual rights, laws, and ordinances.

The transition section has to do with accessing post-secondary education, and 52 has to do with soft skills, personal qualities, customer care skills, and leadership skills, which really can be used by any student in any walk of life. So 52 is an important Civic objective.

And then, as an example of the Workplace Training ones that deal specifically with the workforce training, number 70 has to do with workforce training in early childhood education. So again, you might not want to use these ones in the 70s for your general Civic Participation Needs Assessment and save those for what you would be doing in your Workforce Training Needs Assessment.

So use the chosen civic objectives to design a needs assessment and remember that beginning level learners need a picture-based assessment with simplified words, very important. And intermediate to advanced level students should have pictures also, but they can also have phrases or sentences. But remember that giving the students the Civic Objective descriptions is really not appropriate for any level, so the things I showed you here, these Civic Objectives are for teachers. They're not for students, so please don't use these in your needs assessment.

So an example of this-- do this-- for example, a collage of pictures with a few words-- Use a bank and not specific objective that would go along with using a bank, which is below here. And just to let you know, I have given what we-- on the EL Civic's website, there is a list that gives you the Civic Objective number, the description, and then the TE version. We've put a version into TE so you understand which civic objective you're working with.

And then we made up a list of shorter versions of the civic objectives to help you see what the words you could use. So for Beginning Low and Beginning High, for number 1, you might want to use money and banks and have symbols, et cetera, and pictures of banks.

For the higher levels, you could use financial services. We do want to use words that are appropriate to the level. So you can find this list on the EL Civic's website if you're needing help in thinking about the simplified descriptions of the Civic Objectives.

OK, and let's go into some more examples. So I showed you this one already. This is an example of Beginning Low, as I said, and you can see it's picture based. And they used one- and two-word descriptors. Let's see another one.

So this was used for multi-level. Again, it might be difficult for Beginning Low because it has a lot of words. But they did translate it into the various languages. This happens to be Castro Valley Adult and Career Education Center, and so they did translate this. I don't know if they translate this part as well. But they do have a picture, and then they have a description.

And then Cindy said, I include a minimum of six options for students to select from each year that varies by many factors year to year, such as data from our annual student career interest surveys, IELCE surveys, IET class needs, student enrollments, teacher input and availability, and previous year's COAAPs. I use the student response data and additional teacher input to determine the COAAPs for the next program year.

So she's describing a comprehensive program. She uses a lot of information to select what the needs assessment is going to be, and then she uses input from the teachers as to which exact COAAP would be important for each student and whether they've done it before. Maybe they don't want to repeat every year, because they want to have some new information. So that's a great quote from Cindy, and thank you Cindy for that.

So here's another-- oh, I think-- oh, this is another example of a multi-level one, again, a little bit less language here. What do you want to learn? What do you need to know? Choose three things. But if you notice they did use these larger descriptions.

So I think a lot of people do this. I don't advise it. But the picture, et cetera, is really lovely, and it would be great if you're going to copy this one from Grossmont High Union High School District, is to just pop in those shorter descriptions that I gave you a list of and you can access on the EL Civic's website.

And this is one for level 5 students, so you can see there's no there are no pictures here. But they have simplified the language. So it says, what do you need to learn more about in English class? Vote for 3. And this is intermediate, high, or advanced level students.

Talk to your pharmacist about the medicine you're taking and learn to read medicine labels, learn about CPR. Talk to your doctor about a health problem. So you can see that these descriptions would be accessible to an intermediate high or advanced level student.

OK, any questions about the examples or what we've talked about so far? Feel free to unmute yourself if you'd like to ask a question or put it in the chat. So why don't you put in the chat how many of you have actually prepared a needs assessment for your agency in the past. Put Yes or Y in the chat if you would, or N or No if you haven't done it yet. I'd love to see where you are in terms of having done this before.

Just a little wire and good. OK, great, starting-- OK. Great, so some of you are totally new to this or starting an EL Civics program, and some of you have done it already or used one. That's great. OK, good. Thank you so much for responding.

OK, so now that you've seen some examples, let's get down to the nitty-gritty of this. OK, so basically, this is how you want to administer your School Community Needs Assessment. So again, you make it up and using the examples that I've shown you, perhaps.

And then you want to administer the needs assessment to a majority of learners, as I mentioned, important to have a majority of learners be involved so you get a full picture of the needs of your community. And you ask learners to check three to five objectives of interest, six if you want to, depending on how many you want to end up with at the end.

I wouldn't suggest that you do it in any kind of number order priority, one to six. It's really difficult to tally that and work with that, and you don't really need that. So just have them check, and then you can tally the six top ones or the three top ones and then work from there.

You want to tell you the results and then use the results to choose 3 to 10 Civic Objectives. The system requires you to use a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 10. If you're a small agency and you only want to select one or two Civic Objectives, you just need to ask for permission from your CDE consultant, the California Department of Ed regional consultant.

And same for using more than 10. So if you're a large agency, you may need many more than 10. And you just need to ask for permission. Once you have the permission, you don't need to ask again in subsequent years unless you change that number. So if you ask for 14 this year, as long as you stay within the 14 for years to come, you never have to ask for permission again. But if you go up to 15, then you have to ask.

OK, once you've chosen the Civic Objectives or decided on how many you're going to use, then you want to review all the COAAPs in the Civic Objectives. So you can see what the possibilities are for the instruction and assessment you're going to offer, and you can also consider revising or writing a new Civic Objective that would meet the needs of your learners.

So that's another presentation. But if you thinking that none of these COAAPs meet the needs of your students, then feel free to contact EL Civics at casas.org to discuss how you might revise or write a new COAAP, which is totally available for you to do.

So once you've reviewed all of them that are available if you want to use a preapproved one, then you select the COAAP that meets the needs of the students. Remember to consider the content-- do they want to learn these things-- the level of the student, because not all COAAPs are for all levels, the type of assessment, oral or written.

Some agencies don't feel they can administer oral assessments, so they want to choose all written assessments. Remember, that ESL in general is a lot of oral language. So if you can, it'd be great to assess at least some of the oral skills.

Once you've selected the COAAPs, you've done all of these tasks, administering it, tallying the results, selecting your COAAPs, then you need to complete the needs assessment summary form. It is an electronic form. It's a fill-in form you can just do on your computer, and you just need to keep it on file at your agency in case you're asked for it. I'm going to give you an example of that. OK, and there's a link to it here once you get the slides.

So upon needs assessment completion, you're required to submit the School Community Needs Assessment Summary Form and keep it on file at your agency. And these are the directions for the form. It says, describe in one or two paragraphs the process the agency used to determine the school community student needs and interest related to EL Civic civic objectives.

Summarize the results of the need assessment. In other words, we surveyed 500 students. 400 students responded. The top choices were X, X, and X, or X, Y, and Z.

And because of those top choices, we selected these three civic COAAPs, so something like that, very simple. We just keep it on file at your agencies. And then you must keep a copy of it and present it to the CDE consultant if they were to ask it for you.

So you should have either a paper file or-- I want to say-- I'm sorry-- a paper file or an electronic file to keep these documents. And let me give you the-- sorry. Let me give you the link, I mean, the email address if you want to contact us about revising or writing new-- or if you have any questions about this process after the session. And I will also give you my specific email if you want to contact me specifically.

OK, let me show you an example of the Needs Assessment Summary Form. So this is what it looks like when you access it again. You can access it at this link. And after I get done with my slides, I'm happy to take you to the EL Civics page and show you where these things are. It happens to be a fillable form. I don't know if you can see it here, but there are these blanks that allow you to fill it electronically and then type the paragraph here of what you need to write.

OK, and this is an example from Campbell Adult School. They went into a lot of detail. You don't need to go into this much detail, but I wanted you to have it here just to see what they do. And I'm not going to read it to you here, but I hope you'll access the slides and just see that they described-- they have two types of surveys.

They use a different one for the levels that they have, et cetera, et cetera. They talked very much in detail about it, which is great for you to see what they did. And I think this is the second part of it. Yeah, so they wrote two quite long paragraphs, but that's great.

OK, and then Jennifer-- I just want to say, so Jennifer Parker-Adib sent this to me. She was so kind and sent an example of her level 5 needs assessment that you saw and of her summary form. And then she also does an electronic tallying of the votes that they got, so she has all of the questions here listed. And then she sees what the percentages are, and then it's easy to choose the top ones because she can see the data on what was selected.

And then she separates it in the quarter, so she I think she chose three or four. So in quarter A, the lower levels don't do the COAAPs. They are busy with other things. But the levels 3 and 4 do 37.4, and so does level 5. And then in second quarter, everybody does a COAAP.

The level 1 does 7.6. Level 2 does 28.5, as does 3 and 4. And then the higher levels do the 7.6 again. And then in quarter C, again, they've done different-- decided on different COAAPs here for each level. So that's how she sets it up for her course, depending on the choices that students have made.

And I think that that was just her worksheet, so she could see what she was doing. And then this is the final decisions about what students will be doing in each quarter of the year, program year. So just to see how she does it. Thank you, Jennifer.

OK, any questions about the General Civic Participation Needs Assessment? Feel free to unmute yourself, or type it in the chat. And remember the link I gave you. I'm going to give it to you again for the-- oh, not just for the slides, but for all the resources. So you can see these-- I think I posted all the example needs assessments and Jennifer's work as well. So you can have it there, so that's there for you.

OK, for those of you who have IELCE programs, it's a little bit different. So the important thing in workplace is that you are assessing the needs of the community because, when you're doing workplace instruction, you want to be sure that students can get a job after you've trained them. So the important thing to do is to find out what priority job and training needs exist in your area.

Now, your career technical education department may have already done this, but, again, you need to access this information if you are the one who's planning your workforce training. So what priority jobs and training needs exist in your area? And then these are also some groups that you might want to talk to if it hasn't been done.

How do you interact with Workforce Development Board, the AJCC, your WIOA. Title I partners, any career technical education advisory groups? They should be able to tell you about the priority jobs and training needs of exist in your areas. If you're starting from scratch, you definitely want to do that because you want to funnel your students and train your students to access jobs in your community.

So once you've found out what the needs are, then you need to find out the training opportunities. Do you offer training in any of these priority job areas? Or do your partners, for example, community college or community-based organization offer this training that you can assist your students to prepare and enter these programs.

Once you find out what are the priority jobs and training needs in your area and where students can get training, that is when you do a needs assessment of your students. And you find out what training programs your English learners want to participate in. Even if there are jobs in your area and there's a training program with your partner, there's no sense offering that program if your students don't want to participate in it.

So once you've found out these first two items, then you need to find out what your students want to do. Then would be the time to do a needs assessment. So decide which job training your agency or partner agencies can offer, and then you want to discuss with your CTE and ESL teachers what levels of English language learners could participate in that training with support.

So our IELCE program is all about offering support to English learners to help them succeed in training. A long time ago, we used to wait until students already learned English and then offered them training. The point of this funding is to offer them training while they're still learning English for a number of reasons, one, to motivate them to learn English. And it certainly does.

When they're involved in training, they're more apt to learn the English they need because they need it. And they see the need right away, and also that this helps them do it faster so that they don't have to wait until after they learn English to get a job.

So once you've discussed what level students can participate in the training, then you would develop a needs assessment related to that job training or all the job trainings you have and then administer the assessment to any learners of those levels, and then utilize the results to inform your agencies of the training programs to offer. Again, we only want to offer the training programs that students want to participate in.

So this is a possible Workplace Needs Assessment that came from Castro Valley. You can see, again, the English is a little bit more difficult, but it's an electronic form. What is your first name, your last name, email address?

They're asking if they're working now or if they're looking for a job in the next year or two so that they can see about the training. And then they offer them different examples, career and child care education or working with children, and they give some examples of that-- health careers and small business or starting your own business.

The entrepreneurship or starting your own business is really a great topic for our immigrant students because they often have worked in businesses in their countries and might be interested in starting one themselves. So I've been doing a lot of training on workplace entrepreneurship, and that seems like a really good area for us to be focusing on.

OK, once you know which areas you want to work on, then it's important to look at the COAAPs that are available for those training areas. So rather than asking the students, you would be choosing the COAAPs that go along with the training. So the ESL teacher and the CTE teacher would be working on selecting a single set of learning objectives, and then you would see which of those learning objectives match the objectives of these civic objectives.

So for example, many, many training programs would benefit from 37 or 52, which has to do with soft skills, customer care skills. Many of our jobs have to do with that. And even if they don't deal with customers, dealing with co-workers also require soft skills. So that's important.

A lot of agencies use 33, get or keep job skills. And there are many others that might relate. And then we have the specific civic objectives in our 70 series, which is our workforce training section-- Early Childhood Education, Health Care, Building/Construction Safety, Information Technology, Manufacturing and Machine Tech, and Accounting. Those are the ones we have now.

We welcome and would be happy to assist you in developing a civic objective and/or civic objective and additional assessment plan or COAAP in any new area of training you would be interested in. We're looking to build this. So please let us know, again, at EL Civics at casas.org.

So let's talk a little bit about needs assessment resources. So on the EL Civics web page, and here is how you get to it at casas.org. I'll show you in a minute how you get there. There is a whole section on needs assessment.

There's the requirements or discussion of needs assessment as a requirement in California, an overview of what needs assessment is, an example of EL Civics Needs Assessment at the beginning level, and then the summary form, so this is the summary form you need to complete as a requirement. And then we have some other outside links that might be of interest to you if you want to learn more about needs assessment.

So here, again, is our self-assessment. At this point, how would you characterize your understanding of EL Civics Community Needs Assessment? On your piece of paper, rate yourself from 1 to 5. And in the chat, would you write a Yes or No if your number has risen?

You don't have to tell me what your number is now. But if you put a Yes or No if your number has risen, you have a little bit more information about Community Needs Assessment. Thank you, Ann. Thank you, Josie. And Jennifer, thank you. OK, good, so at least a little bit more information. Do you have any questions?

And as we always say in our trainings, we would love to know what you will do with this information from the webinar. It's so great if you can share with your administrators, other teachers, TOPSpro Enterprise staff, whatever information you've learned that could help your agency do better with this.

Let me see where I-- what else I have here. Oh, yeah. So if it's OK, if you have a couple of more minutes, let me stop sharing here, and let me well let me pull up the civic's website so that you can have-- Oh, gee. I hope I didn't do anything. Let me give you a new share.

Here we go. And hopefully, you're familiar with the EL Civics website. I'm sorry, with the CASAS website. Let me get out of this. OK, this is the CASAS website. And if you scroll down, over on the left-hand side, it says California EL Civics.

Anybody can access this. When you get to this landing page, I guess they call it, we want to go to this section this, the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5-- the fifth element is California Civic Participation. And this is the EL Civics page. It has all the information you need.

I think I wanted to show you where that shortened form is. Now, let's see here. I thought it was here. I guess it's not here. I have to post it then, or you can ask me for it. I thought it was there. But if you scroll down-- or maybe it's down here in the Needs Assessment. Let's see.

If not, I think I'll put it here for the Needs Assessment. I'll put it down here in the Needs Assessment. Anyways, this is where I was showing you on the website, and you can see all the resources that you have here.

Was there something else we wanted to-- yeah, thank you. Did you put this page-- thank you, Mandlee. So Mandlee put this page in the chat so you can have it, but you can get it the way I showed you also. Any questions about the CASAS website or what's available to you here?

OK, let me go back to my slides. And Mandlee, did you want to say something about the evaluation?

Mandlee: Yes, thank you so much, Lori, didn't want to interrupt. Thank you for your presentation and all of our attendees joining us this early morning. I did pop into the chat, the evaluation link, and we do ask that you take a few minutes and find time to please provide feedback.

It is so important, as you all know. Just getting that information also informs how we move forward with our remediation. It also helps provide Lori with some additional tips on your feedback so she can continue to grow her presentation as well. We do share all feedback with our presenters once we've synthesized the data.

And outside of that, I just want to say, today is day four of our summit. And I can't believe it's over. It was fast and furious. I hope everyone has found some great value in the sessions. And when you're done at the end of the day, I'm also going to pop in the chat the overall evaluation to let us know the experience that you've had with today's-- or with the last weeks-- with the summit.

And there that goes. And with that, I'll turn it back over to Lori. If there's any questions, please feel free to come off mic. It is the last few minutes of the time we have together. We're a small group, so we can be informal.

Lori Howard: Yes, thank you, Mandlee. And thank you for that, and I hope you do fill out your evaluation. And I did put the link to the slides there. And again, it's not just the slides. It's the resources of these examples that those kind of agencies have shared with us. They're examples on how they do their needs assessment. And you also see here on the slide my email address, lbhoward@casas.org and a QR code to link to that folder, Google folder, which has not only these slides, but a number of resources for you.

Great, well, thank you, Ann, that you'll share this information with the person who wants to start an EL Civics program. Be sure to check your funding to make sure that you are funded for EL Civics. And if you want to talk about that a little bit, feel free to email me at lbhoward@casas.org.

You can use these co-ops whether or not you're funded. But if you're funded, then when your students pass the COAAPs, they can earn payment points for your agency. So that's an important little piece of the puzzle. So

If there are not any other questions, we'll close. Just remember, you can always email me at lbhoward@casas.org or at the general email EL Civics at casas.org, and we'd be happy to answer your questions. Thank you so much for joining me here today and joining Mandlee and all of the CAEP TAP people at the conference today. I hope the rest of your sessions go well.

Mandlee: Thank you. All right, everyone. Enjoy the rest of your morning, and we'll see you back at 10:30.