LISA MEDNICK TAKAMI: I'm Dr. Lisa Mednick Takami, and I am delighted to welcome you to the fall semester. We are kicking off the academic year with this very important topic, and we are very pleased to be joined by members of our Chancellor's Office leadership, including Dean Gary Adams, Terrence Willett. We are also pleased to be joined by Eric Cooper from West Ed, our leadership and colleagues at California Department of Education, including Diana Bautista, and our media colleagues at the Sacramento County Office of Education. Thank you all for being here this morning. Next slide. 

So if you've not done so already, if you can please introduce yourself in the chat and your affiliation. We do a lot of analysis because we are a research department, and we always like to compare those who have RSVP versus those who actually attend. So if you could do that for us. Next slide, please. And with that, I will pass it over to my immediate colleague, Chandni Ajanal for some housekeeping. Chandni. 

CHANDNI AJANEL: Hi, everyone, good morning. Just a few notes. This meeting is being recorded. Please note, AI notetakers are currently not allowed. The recording and PowerPoint will be released on the Cal Adult Ed website following its remediation. And we ask that you please fill out the survey at the end. We really value your feedback, and use it to improve our webinars. Next slide, please. 

And just a little note on Gracious Space. So this is a friendly reminder that we want to cultivate a gracious space for respectful, lively, and professional discussions. Thank you. 

LISA MEDNICK TAKAMI: Thank you, Chandni. Next slide, please. 

So our agenda. We have welcomed you. We are going to really be starting with an essential in terms of why these noncredit hours matter so much. And we have an updated August 2026 memo, guidance memo from the Chancellor's Office that our colleague Terrence Willett will be reviewing. And our colleague Mayra Diaz, our lead of the CAEP program, will be reviewing. 

And talking about how we got here, we will be reviewing the three allowable methods, resources associated with them. And then we will be capturing your expertise, if you would like, to join us in this initiative of rolling out SX05 attendance reporting. We'll take plenty of time for Q&A and give you some information on how to follow up with technical assistance, requests, and support as we close. Next slide, please. 

Here are our objectives. We are looking towards your gaining an understanding of today's new memo and implications for noncredit attendance reporting. And I emphasize gaining an understanding because this is not a one-and-done. We are going to be developing an SX05 05 essentials slide deck. We are here to support you in this work, whether it's virtually, in-person, or in subsequent webinars that will be taking place through this academic year. 

Dulce will be revisiting the three allowable methods for asynchronous noncredit attendance hours. We will be providing relevant resources from CC TAP, both in the slide deck itself, as well as in the chat that are archived on the Cal Adult Ed website. We want to learn from the field's implementation experiences and roadblocks, and that's where that Q&A becomes very important. And identify the support needed to move local implementation forward. Next slide, please. 

And with this, I'm very pleased to welcome Dean Gary Adams from the Chancellor's Office to say a few words. Gary. 

GARY ADAMS: Thank you, Lisa. We appreciate the contribution that North Orange Continuing Education is making to the integrated state TAP office, along with the Sacramento County Office of Education. They are a critical part of our technical assistance and professional development capability to the field. We are here to support your adult education expansion. As our chancellor says, noncredit is on and off ramps to our system, and every college should be developing their noncredit programs. 

I'm going to turn it over to our program leader, as Lisa indicated, Mayra Diaz, who is a phenomenal leader of our team, our Chancellor's Office team. But we also have a special guest in Terrence Willett, who is assistant Vice Chancellor in our research, analytics, and data division. We also will be joined by Eric Cooper, who formerly was Vice Chancellor over the data infrastructure and systems division, and now is a lead for West Ed and a critical thinker in all of this, supporting Mayra and Terrence in their efforts. He formerly was an IR director at Sierra College, so he understands the college perspective as well. With that, I want to turn it over to program leader Diaz. Mayra. 

MAYRA DIAZ: Thank you, Gary. Good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us this Friday, August 28 morning. Next slide, please. 

So I'm going to be talking about, touching on why accurate noncredit attendance reporting through SX05 matters, framing the why. Attendance hours are more than just the compliance requirement. They are student level data that helps tell the story of who we are serving and the level of participation in our programs. SX05 supports local and statewide reporting. In that case, the SX05 MIS data element is an important part of the statewide reporting structure. 

The attendance hours that are reported through SX05 contributes to the metrics that are used to understand participation in outcomes across California's adult education system. Failure to capture and enter these student data into MIS could result in underreporting of student data in DataVista, the student success metrics, and an end of the year reporting that we conduct to the legislature as positive student learning outcomes drive future funding in California's delivery system. That means the quality of what we enter locally can ultimately affect the statewide picture of adult education. 

This also impacts the local conversations and planning that you are conducting in assessing the students you are serving, including engaging in annual and three-year consortia regional planning. Inaccurate data can undercount our work and noncredit. If attendance hours are missing or inaccurate, we risk underrepresenting both our students and the work being done by our programs. This is particularly important in noncredit where instructional models and student participation can look very different from traditional credit instruction. 

Therefore, properly tracking and reporting attendance hours and SX05 also helps ensure that the participation of adult learners is visible in the data. And I want to highlight that this effort may require an institutional alignment. We recognize that reliable attendance reporting cannot be the responsibility of one person or one department. It requires alignment across instruction and our admissions and records, IT, institutional research, and MIS reporting. 

So in closing, when we talk about improving SX05 reporting, we're really talking about improving the accuracy and visibility of our students' participation. And that's why it matters. The goal is to make sure the data accurately reflects the students we serve, the instruction we provide, and the impact of noncredit adult education. And I'm going to hand it over to my colleague, Terrence Willett. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Great. Thanks, Mayra. And we can go ahead and hit the next slide, which you already did. Thank you. And we're going to chat about the memo a little bit. And I am being borrowed from Cabrillo College. And when I was there, I was over the adult ed consortium for my region. And so I've got to have the fun experience of working with TOPSpro Enterprise and the different definitions of how do you count enrollment, what's a student minimum, our thresholds, and reconciling those between the systems or not, and then explaining it to board members many times. 

And we're doing our best to take two different systems born up out of different legislation and have them synchronize with each other. And part of what the SX05 is trying to do is be a focal point and a connection point of that synchronization. So I'm going to chat a little bit about the memo and the data element. The main thing, though, I would like to do is get questions from people. What clarification do you need? What support do you need? 

And then also, us together as a community supporting each other in terms of how do we collect these data and report them in a way that doesn't drive us mad, so that where the bulk of our focus is on supporting the students. And because I will be talking a lot about data, I am going to do a surprise announcement of a super secret surprise guest that I also was able to have come on the call, and that is our fabulous director of MIS, Todd Hoig. And so he is here in present in our crew. And when you throw out the questions, instead of getting an answer from me, you'll get the real deal, high quality Nordstrom answer from Todd. So this is very excited about him being here. 

So there is a new memo that came out in August 2026. And it's really responding to a couple of changes that are happening simultaneously. One is the evolution of the partnership between credit community college and adult education in trying to marry the reporting side, but then also coming out of COVID. And also, the introduction of standardized attendance accounting. So all those things happening at the same time. 

And we've had some challenges with collecting the data and reporting it in a consistent, standardized way for a variety of reasons. And so this memo clarifies there was a bit of a grace period for a while to allow us to do the COVID recovery, to build up our systems and our processes to collect these data. And we're recognizing that we're at a turning point where we would very much like to solidify the data collection. 

The last couple of years have been transitional, and we would like to both ask that this be the year of everyone submitting really clean data consistently across all the colleges, so that we can use it for the reporting and give you the opportunity to resubmit last year. So if last year was a little rough, that's fine. And if you got the data, we're here to accept that resubmission. Let's go ahead and hit the next slide, and make sure I'm hitting all the points both general and specific. 

So the new thing in the memo was really clarifying timelines and about the grace period. So we want this year everyone submitting their SX05 accurately. And it's not required to resubmit last year, but that would, please do. It would be great because it create-- you're starting to build up that multi-year consistency of the data. And as I always like to say, well, what's the point? Why are we asking for the data? Why submit the data? Who cares about the hours? 

And just remember that all of us here on this call were in the business of spinning data into gold. It is for the development of resources so that we can support our communities with these vital services that we offer. And we're in an age of accountability. We need the data, and it needs to be clean and consistent so that when we go to various funding entities, that we've got a good story to tell about all the successful services that we've been providing. 

And so that means that there will be a focus on the SX05 locally, your MIS submissions. And I'll want to note that there is a difference between the reporting and MIS versus SX05 hours from your adult ed noncredit participants and 320. And I think we'll probably touch on that a little bit. You want to report accurate data in both, but they are a little bit different animals. And so that's important to keep that distinction in mind as well, and read all the memos and documentation very closely. 

In terms of what colleges should be doing now, I would say, look at last year's data and see if you're satisfied with it. And if so, give yourself a pat on the back and get ready for another year of submitting awesome data. But if the data aren't all you thought it should be, come up with a plan for what you want to do to improve the data for this next year. And maybe even if it was, well, we had the data. It's just for some reason it got blocked in the submission, and going through the resubmission process. 

I always encourage people to form a task force. So have a programmatic person, have a research person, have an IT person, and have someone to bring snacks and set up a task force and have regular gatherings. And think of this as a permanent task or task forces or technically time limited. Think of it as a work group that will help with this data collection, data submission component. And then you can always reach out to any of us at the Chancellor's Office and/or your colleagues for help and advice. 

I'm about to shout out Todd to see if he wants to jump in on the MIS resubmission component. And while he's warming up, I did ask him and he assured me it's pretty much the same as submitting. I think the biggest thing you have to make sure when you're doing the resubmission, you have to select the proper term. And there are some series of referential edits that occur. And we are re-reviewing those because there's some new codes, and we want to make sure everything is logical and aligned with the new guidance. 

So Todd, I'm going to-- since I shouted you out now three times, I'm just going to give you an opportunity if there's anything you wanted to say about MIS submission and support. 

TODD HOIG: Thanks, Terrence. You got it exactly right. Just a few things to remember. When you're resubmitting the MIS files, they have to meet all the current edits. So if you're submitting things from years previous, make sure that they're updated, files are updated to meet this current specs. But for the most part, it's the same as submitting an initial submission. And then one other thing to be aware of is student IDs that have been updated in the interim. So that sometimes is a catchy, a little tricky for the updates. But yeah, for the most part it's the same exact process as the initial submission. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: So Todd. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Excellent. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Sorry, I'm going to bring this up right now because when we resubmitted, there was an issue with our 18 and over, because they were now 18 with the resubmission process. So I'm just flagging that for you, Todd, because I know at least for some of us, when we resubmitted, the age kind of shifted over and it kind of messed up some of our files. 

TODD HOIG: Yeah, I think that has actually-- we've updated that in the interim. So hopefully that should be fixed. If you do have an issue with that, you can reach out to the CCC MIS inbox. But I do believe we've switched that from just a pure date calculation that we used to the age at term. So that should be fixed now. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: And I see Pam Mery's hand up, too. Go for it, Pam. 

PAM MERY: Hi. Hi, Todd. Hi, everyone. Happy Friday. I'm super excited to be getting more and more details on SX05. Eric and others on the call know I've been asking for this for a long time, so I'm really glad to see it taking fruition. We have resubmitted to MIS for any number of reasons, and sometimes it goes really smoothly and sometimes it's really hard. So just, Todd, hoping that you can be available for colleges that hit a roadblock. I know sometimes there are ways to aid the process. I don't say, obviously, of sharing a very specific example of a roadblock that needed your help. 

TODD HOIG: Yeah. Thanks, Pam. That is-- we are definitely here to help. So if you are in the process of resubmission and run into any issues, do reach out to us at-- the best way is through that MIS inbox, which is cccmis@ccco.edu. And that comes to the MIS team and we triage those and then can address those. It's better than, usually better than emailing an individual just in case out of office or other issues. But you can also, definitely CC an individual, if you've worked with us in the past and we will prioritize those and try and help in any way and support in any way we can those resubmissions. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Todd, is it true that people could resubmit all the way, they could resubmit 20 years of data if they were fired up to do that, right? 

TODD HOIG: Yeah, we don't have any-- there's no deadline or limit on how far back you can resubmit. We encourage resubmissions for any time, especially to correct errors or omissions in the initial data. 

Having said that, it won't always affect every use of the data. So we do have deadlines for specific reporting purposes based on the data. So things like the student-centered funding formula or calculation of allocations for different programs, we do have a date where we run those, and so as of that date is what we use. Resubmission won't always affect those uses, but we do encourage them, for any reason, to make sure we have the best and complete quality data we can get. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Great, thank you. Thank you. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: And I would just add-- oh, sorry, Terrence. Go for it. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: No, please, go ahead. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: I just want to add, if you're multi-college, it's a very different situation than if you are a single college for resubmitting, because you are resubmitting at a district level, and therefore, for example, for my institution, for NOCE, we are part of Fullerton College and Cypress College. So just, I will have to advise and consult with my colleagues at Fullerton College and Cypress College and district college in order to be able to submit. So I just want to clarify that for anybody who is in a multi-college district versus a single college district. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Yeah, a good point that dovetails with my last point I was going to make before we transition to you, was to just let everyone know on this call, this is not a solo task. Do not do this alone. One, it's not fun. Two, you won't be able to do it as well, so it almost certainly requires a team of people, especially at multicampus districts. It might sound like a drag. Oh, my gosh, I got to coordinate with all these people, but think of it as an opportunity to bond with your colleagues, break bread, tell jokes, get ideas about recipes, summer vacation, things like that. But everything, it may be a little bit of a time commitment at first. 

And it doesn't have to be-- when you form such a work group or task force, I would also recommend that it be not-- it may start specifically with let's crack the SX05 nut, if you will, solve that issue, but it will almost certainly be a little more broad than that. You'll probably wind up being a data quality committee. And everyone should have a data governance structure on campus, groups of people that meet with the data ownership and reporting, very clear roles. And so if you don't have that, this would be a great opportunity to start one up. If you have one, then go, and if you're not part of that entity, seek out that entity and ask for their help. 

So don't do it alone. It's a team effort, and we're part of your team. Again, reach out to us anytime if you need anything. And with that, let me hand it over to you, Dulce. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Thank you so much, Terrence and Mayra and Gary. Just to be able to set the tone in terms of why this is important, why this matters, and in terms of also being able to give you, as practitioners, some tools to be able to advocate within your local campuses to be able to push this forward, so I'm going to go ahead and walk you through how we got here. All right. 

So I'm going to go back down memory lane, and we're all going to remember what COVID did to all of us, right? So COVID happened in 2020, but we do have to recognize that at some point, SX05, which is the MIS element, was not adjusted for what we were about to encounter as part of non-credit instruction, which is distance education, asynchronous instruction. And so what ended up happening is that historically SX05, which is the MIS element, has always been somewhat of an element tied to positive attendance. And so it wasn't until 2022, which surfaced obviously after 2020, where we had to have a discussion as to why are only positive attendance courses. 

And as you see within even the MIS element, you can see that in 2022, there was an adjustment. It wasn't even positive attendance hours anymore. It was just non-credit hours. And so what ended up happening was this kind of just, like, flow of adjustments, which was on the MIS side, which was around memos, which was around how to actually define these. 

And so, essentially here, what I'm trying to display is, this is not an overnight situation. This has been a conversation that we have had over the last couple of years. And there's been a couple of resources that have come out as a result of the issues that have surfaced as a result of COVID and asynchronous instruction over the course of non-credit ever since 2020. So I just wanted to showcase really that there's been webinars, there's resources, there's memos, there's a slew of just resources available for you as practitioners to be able to anchor and to showcase within your own local institutions, to be able to say, hey, this is where we're at, and this is where we need to be in the next upcoming academic year. 

All right. So, I'm going to refresh your memory. This has been about two years ago, but I'm going to refresh your memory as to what are the three allowable methods for asynchronous non-credit. And so I want to frame this within the CAEP framework. Because remember, we are very much guided by WIOA and by federal legislation. And so, what we want to understand is these allowable methods that were documented for part of asynchronous non-credit distance education are really tied to the National Reporting System for Adult Education, which is beyond our California Community Colleges. And so there's this federal landscape that is really overlaying on top of how we are reporting our SX05. 

So I'm going to go through the three allowable, and then I'm going to showcase what it actually looks like in practice for North Orange Continuing Education, all right, and really showcase as to what this may translate into an actual practice on the ground for an institution. 

So we got clock time, we got teacher verification, and we got learner mastery. This is what was released in the original memo in 2024 and 2022, as to what are the allowable methods for asynchronous distance education. So I'm not going to dive into each of these. We have webinars, we have resources for all of you, if you're interested into really diving into what does this look like at each institution. But today's purpose is really to hone in on the new memo that was released two days ago and refresh our memories as to what are the three allowable methods. 

So the first one is really going to be clock time, assigns clock hours based on elapsed. And this is associated with asynchronous non-credit instruction. All right. I want to make this very clear because at least for North Orange, all of our synchronous instruction is using positive attendance. All of our synchronous instruction is using clock time and how many hours the students are actually utilizing as part of the instruction that is being provided to them. And so, it's really about not necessarily identifying the three methods in which you are identifying how you're reporting these, but today's workshop is really about how do we make sure they get into MIS. 

So the first step is identify your methods. But then the second step, which is extremely critical, is how do we make sure that they are actually showing up in our MIS hours within the non-credit realm. So when we're looking at clock time, we're really looking at methods like clocking into an a lab, or we are using some sense of an online or standalone software program that's actually saying the students are clocking in and then clocking out as part of their instruction. 

The next method is going to be teacher verification. So teacher verification is a little bit more intentional. That's bringing in your faculty, right? So this one requires more intentionality from faculty because we're assigning hours based on the work that students are actually completing or engaging in. So the local process and faculty role is very important in this process. 

So you are working with your curriculum committee. You are changing the hours of COR, which is your Course of Record hour, as you're submitting your curriculum to the Chancellor's Office. And all of those things are really in partnership with your faculty in order to assign hours to your students as they're completing each of those assignments or each of these components, or for non-credit, we actually call them modules, for some of our non-credit high school diploma programs, modules, as they're completing them. 

The last one is going to be learner mastery. So we covered this in terms of this emphasis is really shifting from time online to demonstrated mastery. And so ours are attached to completion or to content based in terms of methodology. But in terms of you're completing this assignment and you are there for getting these hours assigned, that is very much a partnership that you're having with your faculty, just as with the teacher verification. 

So at the end of the day, what we're realizing is that it's really important that you don't simply say, this is the method that we are utilizing, but we are utilizing, potentially, a mixture of methods, and we are needing a defensible local process for how these hours are ultimately becoming SX05 hours. So today, what we are really discussing is you identify your method, and then how are you verifying that those hours are actually making it into SX05, into DataVista, into data mart, into your MIS process that are making sure that your non-credit students are actually being counted in the way that they should be counted. 

All right, I'm going to take you down a narrative of what this story is, so North Orange Continuing Education, if you do not know, we are a standalone non-credit institution. We do not offer any credit courses at all. So everything we actually submit to MIS is completely non-credit. So let me tell you a little bit about what we are doing in terms to address our-- what has happened, essentially, since 2020. 

So we offer instruction across multiple modalities-- face-to-face, we offer synchronous, and we offer asynchronous, and we offer hybrid. So we do all of that within the non-credit realm. We actually have five major programs basic skills, which offers HiSET, GED, and our High School Diploma Program. We have a CTE program. We have a DSS program that services about 800 students almost every year. We have an older adults program. And we have a very comprehensive ESL program that is also part of WIOA Title II, including our basic skills. 

But essentially, we're offering a variety of modalities across non-credit. And so what does that mean? So historically, we have grown an attendance capturing system for our local systems, whether it's a lab or an instruction. And so if it's a synchronous class, and I'm going to throw out labs right now, so let's just talk about instruction, whether it's a synchronous, which is me and you talking, I have, what is it, about 141 participants here that engaged in a one-hour instruction, versus a fully asynchronous, where you're doing it on your own versus a hybrid instruction, which is synchronous, a mixture of what we're doing right now, versus asynchronous instruction. And so I'll walk you through a little bit, briefly, of what we're doing. 

So synchronous instruction is just as you see, right? I have 141 hours of a one hour have been given to all of the participants here by the faculty that have actually captured attendance for each of those. And so essentially what we're taking is we're taking how many hours of face-to-face are we actually utilizing, and we're reporting in to SX05. 

When we are looking at asynchronous instruction, we have had to look at our curriculum. So there's been a big partnership with our curriculum committee and saying, hey, for these asynchronous instruction courses, what is the COR? Course of Record, how many hours are being allocated over your course of the semester to that non-credit class? And we are saying, OK, you're saying it's a total of 118 hours, and it's divided by 18 weeks, which is our semester, right? 

So then we divide that, and what is happening is that for our asynchronous courses, if faculty are seeing students engaged in that week, they are taking attendance in our Attendance module, and they are being allocated that set of hours per week, right? Other IT representatives know it as WSCH-- Weekly Student Contact Hours. And we are assigning that as part of SX05. So it really lent itself to our attendance accounting method in which we are having faculty attend or at least report attendance, but also, we had to adjust it in order to account for the COR. 

What do we do for our hybrid? So we got synchronous. It's just hours of instruction. We got fully asynchronous, which is COR divided by term length multiplier, which is how many weeks your term is, 16.5. 17, 17.5, 18, right? 

And then we got our hybrid, which is among our synchronous instruction, we are capturing those hours. So if Dulce and Terrence had an interaction for that course for three hours within that week, three hours are recorded. But the asynchronous component was then extracted from that synchronous component and divided by the TLM. And if the student engaged in any of that asynchronous instruction, whether it be chat boards, submission of assignments, engagement in the class, then they would get the remainder of the COR hours. 

I know it's not clear cut, I know it is formulaic, but this is the way that we were able to at least distinguish between the three to be able to report our hours. So synchronous, again, was very straightforward, whether they clocked in a lab or whether instruction and faculty were accounting for their hours, asynchronous was taking the COR dividing it by the TLM. And then for hybrid courses, we were really taking a mixture of what is synchronous, subtracting it from the COR, taking the remainder of the COR, dividing it by TLM, and then assigning those hours as weekly student contact hours to be able to assign those to each student. 

That's how we're doing it. And I recognize that is definitely not a one-size-fits-all, as many of our institutions and many of our non-credit programs are very much doing a mixture of everything that is between those three methods and everything in between. 

So, what I really wanted to showcase today is just really a method in which that NOCE uses. And I think the most important part out of all of this was the verification process. So one of the things that I have encouraged non-credit programs to do is hire an MIS non-credit researcher. That is very key. You can use your CAEP funds to hire a non-credit researcher on your team. And I will walk you through why that was very helpful. 

For us, we can see that the student is engaging in participation. We can see that we are capturing them. But what we found out is that, it wasn't being translated in our district-wide MIS data submission. So what we found out is that there was actually a step in our district-wide process that was kicking out our SX05 hours. And we did not know that. 

We thought that it was, maybe, an occurrence of positive attendance versus independent study courses. And what we had to do is really engage with our district-wide IT and say, what do we need to fix in your code to be able to make sure that all of our SX05 hours are being submitted and included in our MIS hours? 

And so, I recognize, many of our non-credit programs across our systems are very low funded. I recognize that you may have one or two non-credit people within your institution. But I encourage you to go to your MIS people and your IT and your IR people to say, hey, I need to verify whether or not my SX05 hours are showing up. And if you do not see them showing up, then definitely go towards the guidance and the resources that Terrence and Todd have given us to say, hey, why are our hours not showing up? 

So this was really a local accountability method that we established. And again, I find myself very lucky because I have an MIS non-credit research analyst that I can actually say, hey, go check these hours. But it may be to your benefit to reach out to your research offices and say, hey, we have some accountability measures that we have to comply with, and how can we ensure that within an institution, we're making sure that our hours are being included in? 

So even for a standalone, non-credit, fully IR functional institution, we had to make sure that our hours were going in because we saw that they were not, as part of a local institutional process. Because we are part of a multi-college system, we are also submitting MIS hours with Fullerton College and with Cypress College. So if you are a multi-college district, I highly encourage you to definitely check in. If you are a single college district, God bless you, and definitely reach out to your IR folks and say, hey, our SX05 hours being submitted. 

Why this mattered-- oh, go for it, ma'am. Pam, go for it. 

PAM MERY: Hi. Actually, maybe, you want to go through this first, and then I can ask my question. But my question is related to-- well, I can ask my question, then we can, maybe, dig into it. Is there a way to use Data Mart to see how well the SX05 hours are coming through? 

So I know in Data Mart, there is the non-credit course section summary, reporting view, And, in theory, I think, we should be able to see how the information is flowing. Not that it wouldn't also be helpful to look at the underlying data, look at the actual files that are submitted. But just wondering if, and I don't know if this is, maybe, too much for today, if this would be a separate session, but we've got some of our MIS folks here-- thank you, Todd-- so might be an opportunity to take a quick look at that. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Thank you. Yes. Todd or Terrence, I mean, is that a reliable resource that we can leverage as IR professionals to say, hey, yeah or nay? 

TODD HOIG: Yeah, we do have reports on Data Mart, and Data Mart is a useful tool especially for validating MIS submissions because it is refreshed on a daily basis. So if data is submitted or resubmitted, the next day, those changes should reflect on Data Mart. So that's a good reporting tool to use when it comes to actually validating the SX05 values. It may not be at the level of detail where you would need to see those changes. 

As Pam mentioned, we do have the non-credit course section summary report. That has FTES that are calculated based on those SX05 values. So you would see a change there, but it may not be at the level of detail you would need to see that. We can, maybe, take this as kind of offline and maybe do a little bit of more looking into this to see if there is a way we could update that report to add additional detail or possibly create something else that would facilitate that type of analysis of the resubmission or submission of that data. 

Terrence, do you have anything to add? I'm not sure. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Yeah. I'm thinking, Pam or anyone else, if you had a wire frame of a suggestion of something that would be at the level of detail you need, because that's my thinking, is that it's in there. It's just in the back-end and mingled. And I'm not quite sure if one would be able to separate it out, the level of detail that you'd want for this specific element. 

So there's always having a local report and review of it. And so if you have, a wire frame of an idea in an Excel file or whatever, some sort of mock up, feel free to send it to Todd and I, and we'll take a look at it. And we may even have some-- yeah, because it's good to be able to have that immediate feedback. And then, the other advantage of the Data Mart is comparing, especially if you're in multi-campus district or you want to compare to a neighboring college, that can be helpful. 

It's like Erik's got some thoughts, too. 

ERIK COOPER: Actually, I was going to, maybe, turn the page just a little bit because there's a question in chat that's kind of directed towards Todd, about one of the referential checks between XB01 and SX05, that, since we've got Todd on the line, maybe we can take a look at that one. It's from Lourdes. 

I'll read it, just to save folks. The issue we have is the beginning with summer 2025 sections with non-credit alternative accounting method XB01 equal to N could not report attendance hours in SX05 because the referential language. Has this changed? 

TODD HOIG: Yes. Yeah, we've removed that so that the N if XB01 is reported as N, we do accept hours in SX05. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: And that is something new. So IR or A&R people or MIS people, that is something that has been shifted, where they have added another code for that XB01, which is not only-- so there's independent study, and then there's open entry, open exit non-credit. So being able to distinguish between those two is going to be helpful, but it seems like you can submit hours for SX05 regardless of what that code is going to be. Is that accurate, Todd? 

TODD HOIG: Yes, that's correct. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Perfect. All right. Yeah, so let us know. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Yeah, and on a related note, and I see Crystal is on the call, too. She had sent me an email with a somewhat similar question about referential edits that I forwarded to Todd, just to make sure that things don't crash into each other, if you will. And so, Todd and his team are looking into that. 

And it had to do with the interaction between the XB01 and the SX05, because we've got the E code as opposed to P in the SX01 about the positive attendance credit non-credit versus the E, which is the positive attendance, open entry, open exit. And there's some interaction with SX05. So we're going to take a look at those edits too, and just make sure everything's coordinated. But again, yeah, so it's great when people email us those sorts of things. Super helpful. And then if during the submission process, if something, some referential clash, definitely reach out, let us know so we can clear that up. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Thank you so much, Terrence. All right, I'm going to move us along because I know time is of the essence. 

So pretty much, what I want to just engage here is that method is not the first step. All right. So if you have figured out a method, that is great, but you've got to make sure that the full process works from start to finish. And that means ensuring that your hours are being submitted to SX05. So essentially, what we were able to see is we had to follow the hours. 

We had an established process. We saw that they were being populated into the SX05. But when we actually caught and followed those arrows, we saw in that submission at the district level, that there was a kink, and therefore, extracting or at least kicking out all of our SX05 hours. And so we really had to address that with our own local district processes to make sure. 

And I have to tell you, this was not like-- and I'll actually forward this. This was not an, oh, no, we're not submitting hours to SX05. This was an, oh, no, our students do not have hours for AB540 and other types of verification processes. And that was really a hard hitter. I have to tell you. 

This was really where we saw that we were not really just servicing our non-credit students. And so as we were trying to establish this, and I'll go back a little bit, we realized that it wasn't just an IR issue or an IT issue. It was an A&R issue. It was a faculty issue. It was an everybody is involved in how to make sure that our students are valued issue. And so what we needed to make sure is that we brought the right people. 

So what I'm asking you, as a field, is as part of this, knowing that the new memo is coming out, knowing that us, as non-credit programs, have to get our ducks in a row, is go to your institutions and figure out who is involved in attendance accounting. It's going to be your instruction and your faculty, for sure. It's going to be your A&R for sure. Your IT and your IR, for sure. But you got to find your other non-credit champions in this realm, right? 

And so, I would encourage you to meet regularly to address and look at this data, and to be able to advocate for your non-credit students on your campus. Because ultimately, it's not just necessarily about hey, pick a method. It's about making sure those hours are being reported within the MIS element. 

And so what we ended up finding out is that many of our students were coming to us, and they were saying, hey, you're not reporting SX05 hours. Therefore, my hours in asynchronous courses aren't showing up in my transcript. Therefore, I can't get a job, I can't get AB540 verification, and I can't figure stuff out in other realms of my life. Those were the three big hitters. 

And so, I encourage you, if you are having pushback, and it's not just within non-credit. I have to tell you that this has been an issue that, even within our own institution, it's been a struggle to prioritize to say, hey, we need to make sure that our hours are being recorded because it's impacting students, but B, it's also impacting our metrics, and our non-credit students are not being counted. And so, if you need some institutional buy-in, this is my next slide. This is more than a CAEP requirement. This is more than just, we're trying to do this to make sure that we're counting our students. This is beyond that, right? 

We have seen that these records within our student information system, our SIS, our banner, or whatever system you're using, is actually being tied to what our students need, including transcripts and verification of instruction. And that is just as real for our non-credit students as it is for our credit students. And so, therefore, this is one of those elements that if you're not getting executive or buy-in, in terms of compliance in SX05, this may be another avenue for you to be able to get compliance in, which is a direct impact on our students, our non-credit students. 

We want to elevate that non-credit effort. We want to have it be a part of your institution's mission and student population. And so, there is no way that we can do that if we have no data. And so I'm going to put on my IR hat, on credit, and I'm going to say, if we want noncredit to be valued within and across our system and even within a local system, within our institution, we must make those students and the work that they are doing visible within our institution. And the way that we do that is through SX05. It's through those hours of instruction within these non-credit areas that we are providing for those students. 

All right. I'm getting off of my, what is it, soap bar. And I'm going to do a quick poll, as to where we are at. So, I'm going to see, can you go ahead, and we're going to try to really make it to see where is everybody-- because I'm a researcher, and I love surveys, and I love polls-- where is everybody in terms of institutionalization of the SX05 and Buy-in 

So go for it, Chandni. Let's see. All right, so the first one, we're going to do is, I want you to think about a year ago when we were like, this is going to come down, but we're not sure when. A year ago, where are you now, in terms of SX05? Have you established a process? Are you submitting hours? Are you still trying to figure out? 

And again, we're really creating a space here to just get a sense and a pulse of where you are so that us, as CC TAP can provide technical assistance, whether it be one-on-one, webinars. We go in and we talk to your executive, we go in and we talk to your Academic Senate, we go in and we talk to your classified, whichever it is. But we need to get a sense of where you're at in terms of SX05 and actually submitting those asynchronous hours. 

All right. All right. I got about 13%. I wish you for 20%, people. Come on. We're at 13% here. 17 out of 124. All right, there we go. Almost there. There we go. All right. We did it. All right, 23%. 

All right, so here we go. So amongst the 36 and ongoing 123 participants, we are seeing that 33%, highest is we are still determining which method and process to use, followed by we have established a process and our submitting ours. All right. So we see that we're still kind of polared here, trying to figure out what makes sense. 

Do we got to involve our faculty? Do we not have to involve our faculty? We see that about a quarter, that's great, are submitting hours. And we will definitely be checking on those. All right. So it seems like the majority of us are definitely still trying to figure out processes. 

What is your biggest implementation process or biggest implementation barrier? Wow, almost 40% is policy interpretation. So I'm going to ask a brave soul to come out and talk to me about policy interpretation. What is the issue in terms of us figuring out policy interpretation? 

Anybody willing? Oh, go for it, Jeff. 

JEFF HENDRIX: I would say consistent messaging across departments, cross-functional departments, and that consistent lexicon nomenclature in a way to help reduce the cognitive friction that the students are experiencing while navigating that system. So, I would look at it as a cognitive friction issue and helping to reduce that. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Thank you, Jeff. I mean, I definitely think we need to take into consideration, what is this impact on students, and what does this look like? But yes, I think-- and what institution are you at, Jeff, if you don't mind me asking? 

JEFF HENDRIX: Copper Mountain College. So policy and interpretation across both credit and non-credit side. So I believe a lot of it has to do with interpretation. We really are kind of focusing more on data-driven and aligning our lexicon across all departments. So when we talk about the difference in enrollment and registration, what those may be and how those might affect apportionment and student, what the FTES and so forth. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Great, thank you. Yeah, I mean, that aligns perfectly with what I'm seeing as the second biggest implementation barrier, which is faculty process and buy-in. What is the guidance that we're giving them? Which means, also, what is the guidance we're giving our non-credit students in terms of instruction? 

We're seeing a non-credit transcript is not irregular anymore, right? So what does that look like? Are we populating those hours? So I definitely encourage you to have those conversations at a local level. 

But in terms of COR and SX05, it seems one of the biggest things, and again, I'm wearing my researchers hat here, is policy interpretation. How we can definitely give you, as practitioners, some guidance on how to disseminate within your campuses to communicate, why. Is this such a priority. 

I'm also seeing that sample workflows and institutional examples are going to be a big support for the field. I'm hoping, and I'm probably, releasing this information too soon, but I'm hoping our next SX05 will actually showcase some of what is happening. If you are interested in that, we have examples. This is our fourth SX05 webinar. 

We have examples of what has been happening in San Francisco, in our heavy hitters like Santa Ana and San Diego. So definitely, we can talk about that. But again, we are in different places. This was a year ago. We may be in a different place because of XB01. So I encourage you. One of the things I do want to showcase is that CC TAP will develop a professional learning forum to be able to showcase all of these things and all of those pieces. 

The last piece that I just wanted to cover here, in terms of what support would be helpful, and it seems like the number one would be institutional examples, like I had mentioned, but also hands-on implementation workshops. So I just want to showcase, we are here to help you. And I'm going to go back to our poll here. All right. 

So here, we are here to help you. All right. CC TAP is here to help you have those conversations, to help you create institutional buy-in, as to why this is a priority. And we're also here to help you identify, what is it that you need in terms of resources to make sure those hours are actually going in. And that's why we are partnering with definitely, our non-credit champions, like Terrence Willett and Erik Cooper, to be able to say, hey, what is it that we need in order to make sure that our hours are going in, and what are some of the pieces that we need to make sure on the DataVista side and the Data Mart side to ensure that our hours are actually going in. 

All right. I spoke a lot. I said a lot. So now, we are going to open it up for the last couple of minutes. We have about-- oh, sorry-- about five minutes, six, seven minutes. Questions. What are your questions for Chancellor's Office, for CC TAP, for potentially WestEd, to be able to say, hey, given now, the August 2026 memo, what are your questions? 

So I'm going to open it up here in terms, and I just put a couple of here of, are there things that are remaining unclear about the memo? Are there certain things that you want to share that are making it very difficult for you as an institution to make this a priority within your institution? Do you have questions about the three methods-- local validation, downstream reporting, or do you just have what's happening Chancellor's Office or WestEd or CC TAP, right? So let us know. I'm going to open it up right now. Go for it. 

Not all at once, please. 

SONIA: Hi, this is Sonia from College of the Canyons. I have a question. On the chat, we had, Scott Silverman made a comment on the two census dates, being able to calculate hours based on the two census dates and contact hours. The reason we bring this up is that we have MIS regulatory meetings with Illusion, and they provide us a solution for us to be able to collect these hours. And it's been implemented in our system to use that calculation, instead of collecting, let's say, positive attendance hours from the instructors. 

Is that solution not valid? Should we revert that solution? Can we not use that? Just for clarification, since everything's kind of written down, and I'd rather have it recorded. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Yeah. I don't know, Terrence or Todd Hoig, do you want-- I'm not aware of any of the illusion. 

ERIK COOPER: This might be a Mayra and Gary question, but let me at least throw this out there, that because CAEP was trying to align to WIOA and to try to prevent colleges from having to do multiple reporting, almost all of the CAEP reporting is aligned to WIOA standards. And WIOA doesn't allow the two census model, which is why it's the three models that Dulce reviewed earlier. But I don't know, Mayra and Gary, if you want to clarify on any of that? 

MAYRA DIAZ: Thank you, Erik. 

SONIA: I don't want to throw Terrence under the bus, but I believe Terence was there and was part of one of those meetings, of the regulatory meetings. I'm sorry. 

MAYRA DIAZ: I would have to take that one back, but I'll see if Terrence has anything to chime in. 

TERRENCE WILLETT: Yeah, I do like the taking it back part. Make sure we have a good, clean answer. I think, in general, the interaction with the local-- I think there's-- so we're, with some exceptions, we try to be present on the SIS calls. We've been invited to them, to try to do a coordination there, but there's still some gaps and challenges there. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: I see Pam's hand up, too. Go for it, Pam. 

PAM MERY: OK, I'm going to tag on to this question in some full disclosure. So we are a banner school. We have been using the two census historically, the drop rosters from first and second census to populate SX05 prior to when the January 25, 2024 memo came out. Since then, we're working on shifting to Canvas and using those hours. We're almost all the way there. In getting that into MIS. We have it locally, but making the Canvas to banner up to MIS connection is still a work-in-progress because of many competing priorities. 

But my question is because, I think, I may know that answer to your question, Sonia, unfortunately, although if it changes, that could be interesting. But what we heard was that using that two census method would not fly. However, what we're seeing is if we go to the Canvas method, we will be underreporting by, I don't know, about 45%. And so our numbers are going to drop. 

So I'm wondering if there's a possibility to bridge, as we work on communicating to faculty and to other stakeholders, to make sure that they understand how we are using the data from the systems that they're using with their students, and how we're capturing that information so that they know how important it is. Because clearly, there's some unevenness based on our data on how folks are using Canvas locally. And we don't have an institutional policy, per se. So there I am, full disclosure, that's where we're at. 

GARY ADAMS: This is Gary Adams. I think, as Terrence indicated, what we would like to do is take this question, and the team knows my adage is measure three times, cut once. So the answer that we give you, we want to be precise, and we will circle back to you, with that considered answer. And we will do it soon. 

PAM MERY: That would be great. And I just want to add, and I've talked about this in prior SX05 CAEP meetings. We have been scrutinizing our Canvas data, and it is very clear that it is not going to result in any overreporting. So there was initially a concern about students logging in and not logging out, or it not being CRM-specific. That is not the case. There is no overreporting. Maybe, there's one record out of 2,000 that seems out of whack, and we'd just pull that one back, but there really is no overreporting. 

But underreporting is a concern because I think, it's going to take a while. Since it's taken a while to get the three methods out, and then taken a while to figure out how to implement one or more of the three methods, it's going to take a while to fully implement. So I'd say we're about halfway there, which is a lot further along than we were in 2020 or 2021 or 2022. But we still have a little ways to go. 

GARY ADAMS: Yes. No, I agree. And Pam, I think, your comments are excellent. I think, this Canvas anomaly, if it could result in a delta of 45% in your enrollments, that's a very serious thing. So we need to weigh this out. Let us circle and come back to you soon with our response. And we do appreciate your input and sharing your experience. 

PAM MERY: Thanks, and sorry just to-- so the anomaly doesn't have any impact. It's the change over from one methodology to the other that's going to have the substantial impact. The anomaly is really, irrelevant, and I kind of brought it up to show the irrelevance. So if you've got one person who's hanging out for a long time and it seems odd, you can just take them out of the data. But we're really not seeing that to be an issue so I brought it up to indicate that it's not an issue. And obviously, if it was, it'd be serious. But it's not. It's not an issue. 

GARY ADAMS: Understood. Thanks, Pam. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Perfect. Thank you. All right. We're over. But, this was awesome. And also, we have resources for you. All right, so this was not our first rodeo. This is, actually, our fourth rodeo. And so I want to show you all the resources that we have. 

We know this is not the only thing that is impacting us. Trust me. TOP and CIP is definitely up there. So, we combined our attendance hours via SX05 webinar last time with TOP to CIP because we know that's a big one. But we have three webinars for you, and we are having more, trust me. All right. 

So we just want to share these resources for you. We have examples, what we had seen in the webinar or in terms of the polls of people wanting to know what our institution's actually doing. We have that in, I believe, the second and the third webinar. Go check it out. We have compliance issues. 

But again, the biggest thing is you're not doing this alone. All right. We're here to help you. We're here for you to figure it out. We're here, I love this phrase, which is we are here for thought partners. All right. How can you figure out a solution? How can we make sure that this works as an institution? How can we make sure that non-credit is being counted at a statewide level? 

So, reach out to us. We are here, and this is how you can contact us. So we have technical assistance. We have a listserv that you're able to log in and be able to keep on top of what is happening all over the CAEP non-credit realm. If you're interested in just non-credit or just CC TAP support, please reach out to us. 

And then, I'm going to lean it over here, which is our Voices from the Field. You are the experts, all right. You're in the field. You know what's happening on the ground, what's happening specifically with your asynchronous instruction. So if you are an expert or if you feel comfortable enough to come and join our Voices from the Field, please, do so. We are always welcome to bring in new expertise and new perspectives. 

The last one is, we know Adult Dual Enrollment is a big issue. Probably SX05 is going to be another big issue. So we are in the business of communities of practice. We know that we do not have all the answers. We know that there are answers out in the field. And so if you are encouraged to do so, if you're interested in Adult Dual Enrollment. So that is students who are enrolled in adult continuing education and in community college. What does that look like? Join us September 15. We are here to support you. 

All right. This is our final slide here. All right, so if you are interested or if you have any feedback on this webinar, please let us know. I want to thank Terrence Willett. I want to thank Mayra Diaz. I want to thank Gary Adams. I want to thank Erik Cooper, Todd Hoig. Thank you so much for making the time to come out here and talk to us about SX05, and what does it mean to actually capture non-credit asynchronous instruction. So it's really important for us to tell our story. The only way we can tell our story, people, is if we show our data. All right. And that is a big component. 

So let us know if you have any questions. If you're like, Dulce, I don't even know where to start, reach out to us. We will get you a starting point. All right. And we will figure it out together. 

Happy Friday. I hope all of you have a great rest of your weekend. And thank you so much for championing being non-credit champions in this work. I appreciate all of you, and I am so thankful to be doing this work with all of you here. Thank you so much, and have a great rest of your week. Bye.