MEGAN MCBRIDE: --to see so many people here. I see a lot of familiar names in the chat. So thank you again for joining us today. We're very excited to have you here for this first webinar in our pre-apprenticeship series. This webinar will focus on basic elements of pre-apprenticeships and apprenticeship programs, including regulatory standards, key terms and definitions, and the steps required for program approval and registration. And then the remaining two webinars will help us understand how to build and deliver quality pre-apprenticeship programs. 

Before we start, we'd like to thank our friends at the Chancellor's Office-- Gary Adams, Mayra Diaz, and Cora Rainey-- as well as the folks from CDE-- Carolyn Zachry, Diana Bautista and Neil Kelly-- who support this type of work to ensure quality education across the state. We'd also like to thank SCOE TAP for hosting our webinar and the support they provide to us and the field. 

Before we dive in, I'd like to introduce our team of presenters. As Mandilee said, we're from WestEd, where we provide professional development and technical assistance to California Adult Education programs. I'm Megan McBride, senior program manager for adult education. And I'm joined by my colleagues John Brauer, senior program manager for workforce and economic development, and Debi Pezzuto, senior program associate. Throughout today's presentation, Debi and I will be managing the Q&A. So please feel free to drop your questions there. John will pause periodically to address them and to keep our discussion today interactive. 

Leading our pre-apprenticeship webinar series is John Brauer. John brings over a decade of expertise in developing pre-apprenticeship programs and apprenticeship programs across various sectors and regions throughout the state of California. Prior to joining WestEd, John served as the workforce and economic development director at the California Labor Federation. And he also put in 11 years at the California Workforce Board. And so his extensive experience makes him an invaluable guide as we explore today's topics. So without any further delay, I'm going to hand it over to my colleague, John. 

JOHN BRAUER: I don't know if this is working here. Or was it here? There we go. Afternoon, everyone. A little bit more about me just so you know. During that period of time at the Cal Labor Fed, I worked both with apprenticeship and pre-apprenticeship programs, helped establish a lot of the multicraft core curriculum, pre-apprentice programs up and down the state, some of which are located in community colleges or community-based organizations and in high schools. And served as an advisory member to the California Partnership Academy at CDE. So I have experience also within CDE and the Chancellor's Office from an outside perspective of this. 

My goal today is to give you basically a 30,000-level view of the aspects of apprenticeship and pre-apprenticeship as they operate in California so you kind of understand the general requirements, the roles, basic terms, those kinds of things. The next webinar after this is really to talk about strategies and thinking around getting industry demand met, that incorporating and drawing in industry, which in my case, I view as both employers and labor, in particular sectors to consider helping you design your program, get buy-in, and ultimately places for folks to go in that equation. And then the third webinar will be a lot of the kind of nuts and bolts steps of actually considering an apprentice program and moving towards getting it registered, if you will. 

So we are going to-- in the course of this, I told Debi and Megan that if you're asking questions-- and Debi's going to ping me, I think, if there's some pretty good on topic ones. So we're going to try and answer some of those during the course of this. And again, if we don't get to everything-- and we will have some question answered hopefully at the end-- that we will try and answer you if you can leave those in the chat. That would be really great. 

So we're going to look at apprenticeship and then talk about, frankly, what I kind of consider the difference between of an informal pre-apprentice program and apprenticeship readiness programs and what those elements and strategies are for folks around it. So apprenticeship is a formal registered system in the United States that incentivizes investment in long-term worker training, both academically, on the job. And it does so by formalizing contributions and agreements between employers, workers, and the training provider. 

So you're making an investment in the training of an apprentice over a four- to six-year period and likewise giving employers who are participating a real value that they know that there are specific skills, knowledge, and abilities and competencies that they are going to acquire and demonstrate during the course of that time period. And so truly building a talent pipeline, building a system for them to have the workers that they need to compete, both in their industry locally and regionally and nationally. 

So registered apprentice programs are done so with two different entities. And this is not the case for a lot of states. But for about half of the states, they have both. The US Department of Labor has its own apprenticeship registration system. And the California Division of Apprenticeship Standards has its own registration program. Many apprentice programs in the state of California are registered with both. If you are in some other states, as soon as you registered with the state, you would automatically be registered with the Department of Labor. 

I think that's going to be important later on. And probably in the third webinar for you to understand because there are both funding sources and requirements that are slightly different for each of those two entities. But a lot of folks, the general rule is they do do registration with both entities in there. 

Their job as the providing oversight is to actually register the apprentices. So each individual apprentice is actually registered with the state or with the Department of Labor. They are charged with providing administrative oversight and registration of the programs. And that'll be the initial interaction you will have with one of those. 

They actually monitor apprentice programs for compliance and quality assurance. So are apprentices actually being journeying out or getting completion? Or are there are issues with that program in terms of that and the quality of the training itself? They actually provide technical assistance. 

And so they're a good place, both whether you're considering registration and then afterwards looking to DAS and DOL as somebody to provide you technical assistance in your program operation and what you deliver. They also can help build partnerships. I mean, I think there are other stakeholders in the state-- but help build partnerships with sponsors, employers, education providers, and the workforce development system in general. 

They monitor graduation rates. If you look on DAS' website, for instance, you will see that they are putting up statistics on those. And frankly, they keep entities from exploiting the apprenticeship system and apprentices. So there is actually for DAS, for instance, an appeal process for apprentices who are being let go if they so choose to appeal their status within the program. 

Registered apprenticeship includes an indentured agreement between the apprentice and the employer and the apprenticeship committee or sponsors. So everyone literally signs a document that outlines their responsibilities to each other in that particular equation. And I think that's really important for people to understand whether that's DAS or DOL. 

So if you are an apprentice, you are making a commitment to learn the knowledge, skills, and abilities that are outlined in the apprenticeship program. You're meeting requirements around attendance, those kinds of things. And likewise, the apprenticeship committee and sponsor and the employer are making a commitment to that apprentice to basically teach them both classroom instruction and on the job instruction and curriculum. 

So that's a major piece. And you literally sign. In California, it's a DAS1 that everybody signs. And that makes somebody a registered apprenticeship after the program has been registered, if you will. And also, the graduation requirements, the back end-- the progression and then the back end-- so folks know how long that apprenticeship is going to take and what they need to meet and when they're actually going to be finished with the apprenticeship program. 

There are basic elements that are generally included in every registered apprenticeship program. One, kind of stating the obvious but needing to state it, is employer involvement, that you have the employer engaged in signing off on what the standards of the work processes that the apprentice is going to be connected to, particularly in relationship to on the job training. Those work processes themselves are also standardized on the traditional side of apprenticeship in the state of California. There are actually minimum industry training criteria for the building trades and for the firefighters, less more of a hodgepodge for other nontraditional apprenticeships in the state of California. 

There is related classroom instruction in California for DAS registered programs, a local educational agency, which could be a high school. Could be your adult school. Your regional occupational program or your community college has to basically sign off on that curriculum and get it approved. So an apprentice program, if they're registering with the state of California under DAS, has to actually get approval from an LEA. 

There is a schedule of wage progression. There's an expectation that as you move through apprenticeship over a four- or five-year period, that there will be wage progression going on. As you're gathering more knowledge, skills, and abilities, you're becoming more of an asset for your employer in that equation. And hopefully, that's also incorporated into that wage progression. 

And then lastly, there's an award of a portable, nationally recognized industry credential. So somebody who journeys out, for instance, in a traditional program, say, an electrician, and they do so, say, through a registered program in San Diego, if that person goes to San Francisco or goes to Reno or goes to New York, that is a nationally recognized credential that they can take with themselves and that, theoretically, employers will recognize and value that and recognize it as a reason to hire them in that equation. 

Under minimum DAS standards, right now, the on the job training piece takes about 2,000 hours. And that may be spread over four or five years, given the length of the apprenticeship program. It's also combined with at least 144 hours of that related classroom instruction. Again, that's approved by a local educational agency. 

It is slightly more for DOL. There is right now the previous administration on January 15th actually put out a proposed rule to mirror this as their minimum. Given the state of things in Washington, I have no idea whether that proposed rule will move forward or be taken off. But they're roughly the same. It's a little bit more right now on the DOL side, more like 2,600. 

There are three types of apprenticeship that apprentices demonstrate their knowledge, skills, and abilities. So one is time-based, that they are doing. In addition to learning the work processes and doing the OJT, that it's strictly time-based. Others are doing it based on competency based-- so testing and demonstrating knowledge, skills, and abilities. The vast majority are hybrid, where apprentices are doing both in those. 

The other aspect of all types of apprenticeship is the assumption that apprentices are being paid on day one for being an apprentice. So that may be the big differential as thinking about whether you're going to start a pre-apprentice program or building out an apprentice program, is those considerations. So I'm seeing that there may be some questions that want to put on the chat. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Yeah, so we have two really good questions. The first one is, is it possible to access the formal indentured agreements for registered apprenticeships for your own LEA? And who would they ask to get that document? 

JOHN BRAUER: So it would be either the Department of Labor apprenticeship program or the Division of Apprenticeship Standards. So those programs should be able to give you those, I believe. They should be on record with them. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. And then the next question is, what is the acronym that you shared? What does it stand for? DIF1? DIF-1? 

JOHN BRAUER: Oh, DI form 1. It's literally a paper form that apprentices and the sponsor and the employer sign that is filed and on record with the Division of Apprenticeship Standard. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Awesome. Those were the only questions for now. Thanks, John. 

JOHN BRAUER: OK. And how am I doing? Am I talking too fast, Debi and Meg? And I hope I'm not. I'm a little wound up, folks, hearing there's like 300 of you there. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: You're doing good. I'll interrupt you if there's questions. 

JOHN BRAUER: OK. Generally, on the sponsor side of things-- and a sponsor is somebody who acts on behalf of the employer if the employer does not want to be or is not the sole employer in their particular equation in relationship to getting registered and establishing the standards. There are three kind of sponsorship or committees that get created. One is a Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee that generally is made up of both employers and labor together of equal representation. 

I think there's a misunderstanding, particularly in California, where the vast majority of existing apprentices are in a JATC with, for instance, the building trades, that it's just the union. And in fact, they have equal numbers of employers and labor who set those standards, monitor the requirements, monitor the graduation rates. Big difference here is that those employers, also, through collective bargaining agreements, are actually contributing training funds towards paying for the apprentices to be trained by the committee itself. 

A unilateral is a single employer or employers only training committee that has established that up. That ABC construction would probably be the best example of that across the state. And a plant apprenticeship is a version of either of those two pieces, which is specific to a particular location or workplace. 

So PG&E may have a plant program to help them have overhead line apprentices working for PG&E. Or somebody at a manufacturing firm may have it for their three locations as well. And so that's actually just a hybrid of either the joint or unilateral. Yeah, go ahead, Debi. You have another question? 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Someone's asking, would competency based be tied to time-based? And can you explain that a little bit more? Would this still require the 2,000 hours? 

JOHN BRAUER: It would still require the 2,000 hours. So that's a minimum. The time-based tends to be more kind of-- the competency base is more test-based. I don't know how that is specifically. I'd have to pull out some examples specifically in relationship to it. And it's why it generally is a combination of the two. 

The time base is generally they're doing the work process theoretically and getting demonstrated. But the competency may have more actual ongoing testing and competency demonstrations around it. I can share maybe when I bring my friend from the Machinists Institute. We can bring their workbook that folks have to sign off on. And that'll give you an idea in relationship to those. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. And then another question. Does the LEA play a role in the Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee? 

JOHN BRAUER: Somebody set me up for the next part of this equation. Thank you, whoever asked that particular equation. So traditionally, the local educational agencies and the traditional apprenticeship have been that. They have been, if you notice, related to that related classroom instruction primarily, that they've been the ones who approved that. 

The instructor sometimes comes from the sponsor or the Joint Apprenticeship Committee or the Unilateral Committee. And they meet whatever the CDE or community college requirements are to be able to teach that piece out of it. And I know both systems have slightly different requirements in that end of stuff. 

So they have traditionally-- the LEAs have played that role. In California, the adult ed programs are about half of those LEAs for the building trades, for instance. They are more adaptive, more responsive sometimes than the community colleges in terms of playing that traditional LEA role. And so I think a lot of registered apprenticeship programs have found them very worthwhile. 

So where the confusion comes is folks have now started to think about their role, particularly on the non-traditional side, around training, the actual additional training beyond the classroom instruction and how can they deliver and do that particular equation. So it's been that more RSI for the LEAs. And now, we're kind of moving more towards you all considering and trying to do through DAS' efforts funding and supporting LEAs actually taking on that, whether that's the high schools, community colleges, or the adult ed or ROP programs in the state. 

The training could theoretically also come from another entity with the standards of community-based organization, the employers playing that role. I did kind of anticipate this. I was trying to have a diagram that I hope explains that relationship. And we can talk about it a little bit more if people have additional questions. But that's kind of a new thing, meaning the last five or six years in relationship to this. 

And kind of moving forward with this, there's different pieces on the requirements that DAS and DOL oversee. The first one is really the basics of identifying the job classifications, if you will, that the apprentice program are going to be created for. So actually going to the Standard Occupational Classification, the SOC, codes and identifying those, seeing if there is, in fact, already an existing registered programs, either in California or around the state, really helps. Again, DAS and DOL staff can help do that research and identify existing job classifications that have registered programs for them. This is just a sample of utilizing the SOC codes in that particular equation. 

Then moving to that is really setting those standards that I talked about before for each job classification. So if you're doing something for one occupation and manufacturing, for instance, if you're doing a CNC machinist or a maintenance machinist or a CNC tech operator, they each have their own registration and standards in the equation. 

And so that's both in terms of their work progression, what the work training, what the work process is, what the work skills look like, the curriculum piece for related and technical and classroom instruction and then certification. So in the middle of that, not just an industry or a nationally recognized certificate, there may be certificates within an apprentice program that industry sees and needs and has built into the equation. 

Some examples of that that I've experienced and, again, within the building trades-- so during the recession of 2008, plumbers who came through plumbing apprentice programs and were apprentices or journeying out, those folks who continue working had a particular certification for putting in gas lines in hospitals, which everybody didn't have to get but is extremely helpful in the electrical end of things, as we're moving towards solar and passive zero emission, things around automated demand response systems that are metering remotely or solar installation and other things like that. So you have a question, Debi, that-- go ahead. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Yeah. Someone's wondering, who sets the starting wage for the apprenticeships? And is it negotiated between employers and unions or employer and LEAs? 

JOHN BRAUER: So for a Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee, that will be negotiated. It's probably reflected in the collective bargaining agreement between the labor union and the employer. For a unilateral, it's probably between the employers and the program sponsor themselves in that equation. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. And then who established and develops the standards? 

JOHN BRAUER: The standards are essentially proposed and then approved by DAS and DOL. So they may already have registered apprentice programs that they are building off of and looking at when establishing something new. 

California in the DAS system, the formal apprenticeship side, meaning the building trades and the firefighters, is set. They have something called Minimum Industry Training Criteria. So literally, every three to five years within that-- and say, for the electricians, you will have three liters of the electrical unions and then three electrical contractors. And they actually put those together and either revise them and build them. 

So every electrical apprentice program in the state has that same standard, same for about 30 other construction trades as well as the firefighters' system in the state of California. Everybody else is sort of figuring it out now. And I think that they're kind of bringing those to DAS and getting them moved forward. 

I should also say that there are two different bodies that advise DAS. And I forgot to say this. One is the California Apprenticeship Council. And they essentially provide regulatory support. They literally have a role in approving new apprentice programs on the side of construction and firefighter side. 

There is another entity called the Interagency Council on Apprenticeship, which is much more advisory. They're helping the Division of Apprenticeship Standards and the labor secretary, advising them on how to create new apprentice programs but don't have the same ability to set regulatory requirements and standards that the CAC does around it. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Thank you, John. And I just wanted to let everyone know that if you don't have your Q&A open, that Mandilee has shared a link that Mayra shared from the Chancellor's Office for apprenticeship resources and programs. And I'm answering some questions in the Q&A that may not need to be answered live. So still, ask your questions in the Q&A. 

JOHN BRAUER: And so some of the things that get spelled out in the apprenticeship agreement are the requirements of that program. So it may be age requirements. Obviously, high school, youth programs are a different category right now. A program might require a high school diploma or equivalent. 

It may require, because of the nature of the apprenticeship, to have a valid driver's license because you're maybe going to multiple work sites and to be able to pass a basic aptitude test. So sometimes, that could be something in math or reading other pieces. And again, that's a role that pre-apprentice programs can play in helping that, that folks are, what's the attendance requirements for apprentices, what's the-- defining the work training-- so the work processes and those kinds of things as well as the certifications that are required. And who's responsible for delivering those within the program? 

And then it goes from there. The first set is obviously pretty applicable to what the apprentice experience is. But it also does spell out the requirements for the sponsoring employers relative to on the job training and wages and those kinds of things, requirements for the apprenticeship committee, whether it's a joint or a unilateral as a governing entity, what they have to do around that, the requirements of the LEA. 

Approving that classroom instruction is spelled out as well. There are evaluation policies that may get established relative to the employers and the instructors and those requirements and, again, the completion requirements. So apprentices and program sponsors actually know when someone has journeyed out into the program around it. 

I'm going to pivot really shortly in a short fashion. In terms of designing an apprentice program, a pre-apprentice program, and, frankly, even a youth apprentice program, that a really well-designed and well-run program operates based on industry demand and not necessarily on an academic calendar. So think about out this. You obviously operate on an academic calendar. But meeting industry demand should be a really big driver in creating an apprentice or pre-apprentice program. 

So traditionally, in apprenticeship, those program sponsors and apprenticeship committees in determining the number of new apprentices to bring into an apprentice program, the apprenticeship committee considers the future work demands of their journey level workers, folks who are already out in the field. They figure out the work availability on the job for their existing apprentices over the next year, roughly. And then what is that going to also mean, that total demand for the number of new apprentices? 

So a lot of existing apprentice programs-- in 2008, when the economy fell out the bottom, they stopped bringing in apprentices because they didn't have work to meet the apprenticeship requirements. And that's very different than just trying to get to $25 in the seat or whatever your minimum attendance rate is. It's something for you all to really understand if you want to take on that training role and the sponsorship role in the equation. 

Are there any questions? That's going to be something over the second and third that I'm really going to delve more into. But I just wanted to put a pin in that one for everybody. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: You do have a few quick questions. What is the best site for locating existing standards that have been approved? Do you have any best guess? 

JOHN BRAUER: Again, they should all be on file. Unfortunately, it's arcane in terms of you can't get it on the web from DAS and DOL. But you can reach out and work with DAS and DOL staff to get what those look like for existing registered programs. They are there. It's not the most transparent area in the world, frankly. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. And then another question. Is there a maximum age requirement for apprenticeships? I'm not sure if Kim meant minimum age, like 16 and up or 18 and up. 

JOHN BRAUER: I think it's generally established as 18 by most of the industry because there's traditional work requirements. So it's built around that, primarily. There isn't a maximum age at all. I've seen apprentices even go into the building trades and-- not the firefighters but other occupations well into their 40s and 50s, frankly, around it. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. 

JOHN BRAUER: Go ahead. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: We have a couple questions that rolled in. Do we have any resources for teaching apprenticeships? 

JOHN BRAUER: I'm not sure what the nature of that question means. The-- 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Apprenticeships for teaching. 

JOHN BRAUER: I believe the state has put out monies. Actually, the Department of Labor and EDD actually have put out monies as an initiative to have teachers go through an apprenticeship in the last little while or about to anyway. And so the labor agency would know that, I think. And we can find out when that's supposed to come out, Debi. I know it's there and an intent of this governor and the labor agency to meet the shortage. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. We have a question about pre-apprenticeships. But since you're going to dive into it, I'm going to hold off on it. And I'm going to hold off on another question until you've gone through apprenticeships a little bit more. 

JOHN BRAUER: OK. So I generally divide pre-apprenticeship into informal and formal. And there are a large number of pre-apprentice programs out there, informal programs, that really help move folks either coming through your adult ed program or through a community-based organization or an ROP or another entity that are specifically either targeting a specific population of workers or potential workers. 

They may meet a particular industry need. They may help address specific academic, cognitive, or physical skill required for entry into a specific occupation. And there is no standards, obviously, on an informal in terms of length and scope. 

They may include basic skills training, academic skills remediation, or introduction to the industry. So before I was at the labor agency, we did a informal pre-apprentice program that my community-based organization held with Oakland Adult Ed and with the College of Alameda in trade and logistics. 

And one year we had, the program was 8 to 10 weeks. We extended it when we had additional monies to 12. It covered a number of different areas, everything from basic digital literacy that Oakland Adult Ed did to terminology in the logistics industry. We used the College of Alameda to help people get an OSHA 10 training. And then we used their diesel mechanic program to get people trained and certified on using a forklift. And then the last piece of it was, at Alameda, they had to work in a group and basically design a warehouse and explain the operations of it. 

So it was all over the place. There were a lot of informal pre-apprentice programs that do just that. And that is different than a formal pre-apprentice program, which I also call an apprenticeship readiness program. 

And the main difference here is that there actually are code governing the division of apprenticeship standards in recognizing and registering a pre-apprentice program. The most specific thing is that they have an MOU with an existing registered apprentice program in the state. And so it's created in partnership with the industry and DAS. 

It provides value added for the apprentice programs and the employers. There has historically been in some parts of the building trades and other industries folks going into apprenticeship and not making it through the four years. And that's a really big investment that you lose, that if somebody is in a apprentice program for two years in the carpenters union, for instance, and they drop out, it means that apprentice program, its sponsor, and the employers have lost roughly $20,000, $30,000 a year investment in that apprentice. And it's gone without them actually entering the workforce. 

So a lot of times, pre-apprentice programs actually are a way for folks to get industry awareness to decide that they want to do the work. And that could be true in manufacturing, in health care, in firefighting, in the building trades, child care. You name it. It really is, both informal and formal, a way to really understand the nature of the work because we don't always get it when we're younger these days. 

Formal pre-apprentice programs may have an MOU with a registered apprentice program. It does not necessarily translate into automatic entry into a registered apprentice program. It may give them priority. It may give them a demonstration of the competencies required. But it doesn't automatically-- that MOU between the pre-apprentice program and the apprentice program isn't automatically translated into automatic entry into an apprentice program. So that's just important to understand as well, I think, for folks around it. 

There are some basic requirements that DAS has for all pre-apprentice programs. And I just kind of put them in here. I know we're going to make this available. And some people can go back and look. And these are actually in the labor code around there. So they actually require an MOU that spells out the apprentice program support for that pre-apprentice program, what kind of priority but not a guarantee for acceptance, as well as generally making a commitment as to number of pre-apprentice graduates that may be accepted so you have a general idea in that equation. 

Most basically-- and I'm going to just run through these again sort of quick. There's kind of two basic elements that a formal pre-apprentice program has to be included for DAS approval-- so training a curriculum based on industry standards and approved by the documented registered apprentice program, partner, or strategy. So an example is the multicraft core curriculum that some of you may already be a partner of with your local building trade's apprentice programs. That is a recognized one that then in turn leads to multitude of MOUs across the state at a local level between a pre-apprentice MC3 program and four or five or six registered apprentice programs that exist. 

They also have to-- and this is DAS. It's California. It's not nationally. So this still applies, which is strategies that increase registered apprentice opportunities for underrepresented, disadvantaged, or low-skilled individuals, such that, upon completion, the individuals meet the entry requirements, gain consideration, and be prepared for success in one or more registered apprentice programs. 

So this is still there. Can't be overridden by federal government. This is a mandate of the governor, the legislature, the labor agency, everybody and is a real reason for you all, if you haven't and/or are already running a formal pre-apprentice program, to continue on. It's actually a goal of the state. 

There are a multitude of strategies that are walk through really quickly, which I think will help inform the next couple of webinars, the conversations that we can have and take some more. And you have to demonstrate this to DAS, which is strong recruitment efforts focused on outreach to populations underrepresented, as I said before. And that could be both locally, state, or national registered apprentice programs. 

They're educational and pre-vocational services that prepare individuals to meet the entry requirements. And those can include career and industry awareness workshops, job readiness courses, ESL. So those of you who have English language learner health care initiatives, this is on target for that work. 

Adult basic education that folks may need to either get a high school diploma or GED or some other to meet an apprentice program requirement. Financial literacy seminars-- really important in apprentice programs and work where it may be seasonal. So folks may have be working a big chunk of time during the year. And then because of weather or the nature of the industry or whatever, they're either back in the classroom doing apprenticeship-related classroom instruction and not necessarily earning monies or mathematics, which in a bunch of places is an area. So providing those educational and vocational services is really critical. 

The other is just exposing participants to local, state, and regional programs and provide assistance that could be with the fees that go with applying. But sometimes, basic things like tours or having industry apprentice speakers come and talk to the program are really important. Because my experience, when I ran my community-based organization in Oakland, was everybody knew what an electrician, a plumber, and a carpenter was. They didn't know that there was 27 different crafts with the nature of the work is in those. And just exposing folks to those is really important. 

Likewise, whether they like the work or not-- I had folks who would show up and say I want to be a pile driver. But I don't want to show up at 7:00 in the morning. I don't like heights. I don't like working outside. So the pre-apprentice program is also a way to have people figure out whether, from a career standpoint, that's what they want to do. 

Other pieces-- obviously facilitating appropriate support services, particularly during the pre-apprentice program, so that may be lining up transportation assistance, technology assistance, basic case management, other things like that. If there's a physical preparedness aspect to the apprentice program or an entry requirement, working with them to do that. I've seen phys ed departments and other folks provide those kinds of things as part of a pre-apprentice program. 

Providing training on safe working practices when applicable. Sometimes basic safety procedures like OSHA 10 or something around PPE use equipment may also be really important. And the last is sometimes offering real contextualized learning to individuals in a simulated lab or experience or through volunteer opportunities to learn the nature of the work too. 

And I think that's a real value for the adult ed system as well, that folks who may not even understand the nature of the work may also want to learn by doing. They may be a kinesthetic learner, frankly, like me, to do that as opposed to just traditional classroom. And you may be more resourced than a community-based organization or another entity around it. 

And then just one more, Deb. And then I'll take some or a couple more. But it is whether there's automatic acceptance or priority credits for acceptance, as I've said earlier. And then generally, DAS asks, what are going to the efforts to sustain that ongoing partnership between the pre-apprentice program and the registered apprentice program? 

So they're not going to have you just show up. They're trying to get a commitment between both the apprentice programs and the pre-apprentice programs to have this last and be ongoing down the line. You've got some other questions? 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Yeah, we have some great questions. One of them is the DAS approval is for the formal apprenticeship programs only, correct? 

JOHN BRAUER: Correct. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. 

JOHN BRAUER: You can create your own informal. The question then is, if your hope and goal is to get folks into formal registered apprentice programs, is it actually going to be valued by them in relationship to acceptance or enrollment in-- and you'll only know at that point by whether folks get accepted or enrolled or not in those programs. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. The next question is, are there any military organizations that are registered for pre-apprenticeships? This person specifically referring towards aircraft mechanics, things like that. 

JOHN BRAUER: Not the military. I do know that different airlines have established and different-- in combination sometimes with labor unions have created apprentice programs at different airports, if you will. Casey Gallagher, who's going to be on the next webinar with me, comes from the Machinists Institute. And the machinists are one of the labor unions that work with their signatory employer airlines around airline mechanics. 

People have gone through various certifications and credentialing in the military that then translates over. I know that because I have a brother who did not go to college. He went into the Marines and learned avionics in the Marines and then went to work for Delta. So it's been a different pathway. It wasn't an apprenticeship. But that credentialing and certification. 

I think the state, again, is looking at particularly credit for prior learning as a crossover strategy in that, particularly between the military and the private sector and public agency work here just because it really is spelled out. You can look at the SOC code, the standard occupational code that we operate under and look at the-- the military has a similar code that has a crosswalk to it. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Thank you. I have a couple of funding type questions and then one about DAS. I'm going to jump to the DAS question and then leave the two funding for next. How can you get DAS to respond to your request to start a pre-apprenticeship? They do not respond to the email that is stated as the first step in setting a linkage agreement. 

JOHN BRAUER: If they're not responding. Beyond keep trying, I think I would reach out to the Division of Apprenticeship Standards director Adele Burnes, who a lot of folks may know. And try and contact her at DAS. Maybe we can ultimately provide a contact for that between now and the next meeting, Debi, I'm sure. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: I'm making a note for you. And then a great question here, does a pre-apprenticeship automatically qualify as a WIOA IET program? 

JOHN BRAUER: I don't think so. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Do you want me to answer? 

JOHN BRAUER: Yeah, I'm not an IEP. I'll leave that for you and Megan. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Yeah. It can be considered an IET if it does have the related technical instruction. Correct me if I'm wrong, Megan. I've also run-- say it again. 

MEGAN MCBRIDE: Yeah, but we'd need also have an industry recognized credential. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Yes. So if it requires RTI that's run through a certification or community college, then you can consider it an IET. In my past experience running pre-apprenticeships, I did it as an IELCE and classified it as an ADE program so that I could accept HSC and ESL students. There's a lot of acronyms. But there it is. Anything to add to that, Megan? OK. And then are California Community Colleges required to waive tuition for any credit bearing pre-apprenticeship courses? Or would this only apply to registered apprenticeship program courses? 

JOHN BRAUER: I believe no. But I mean, people are operating both out of apportionment dollars. I think they can get apportionment dollars for both. And there are classes that have both apprentices and non-apprentices in them. So it's not an either or. And again, you guys may have a better idea of that. I don't know. We can research that answer as well. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. Got another one about the Air Force. Would organizations like the Air Force be able to register as a pre-apprenticeship? There is a high school on a base that is doing WBL currently but would like to see about formalizing it a bit more. 

JOHN BRAUER: I don't know what would prohibit them from being a sponsor, to be honest with you. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Great. Good, short answers. Someone would just like to reconfirm that DAS specifically, not DOL, a competency-based apprenticeship should not still also require 2,000 hours of on the job training. My understanding currently is that a competency-based program has a six-month minimum time commitment but focuses on testing rather than hour completion. 

JOHN BRAUER: Right, yes. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: Short and sweet responses. And another person, Justin, said we have a pre-apprenticeship program at Foothill College in semiconductor manufacturing. Do you know if the state will be offering more grants to support pre-apprenticeships? 

JOHN BRAUER: I don't know. I can do the research on that as well between now. And that's part of what I'm trying to pull together for particularly the third webinar for folks, is where all the funding is at, both federally and statewide. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: OK. Let's see. Got a few resources that people have posted as part of the questions that I've included in the answers. So you guys can refer to the answers. And then we had another question in the chat. I don't know if it moved over. 

Given the state's emphasis on pre-apprenticeships as an equity strategy and direct connect to employment, these programs seem like a great fit for integrated education and training programs through adult education. I apologize. I thought that was a question. I think that's all the questions that we have right now. 

JOHN BRAUER: That's a good statement. Well, it's a better statement than question. 

DEBI PEZZUTO: There's a few other questions that-- if you attend the next two webinars, you should be able to see pre-apprenticeships and apprenticeships as a whole and be able to get a better understanding of everything. 

JOHN BRAUER: And I'll look at those to make sure that they're answered. 

MEGAN MCBRIDE: All right. Thank you, John. That concludes our session. Thank you to, everyone, for engaging with us in the Q&A and with your peers. Like Debi said, please feel free to contact us with additional questions. John will try to answer some in our next session. Thank you again to SCOE TAP for supporting the webinar. I'll turn it over to Mandilee now for any last words and to give you instructions on the survey. 

MANDILEE GONZALES: Yeah, no problem. Thank you, WestEd team-- John, Megan, and Debi. Holly Clark, my colleague, has dropped in some links. So for the next two sessions that they're alluding to of this series, you're definitely invited to please register if you haven't already as well as provide some feedback for us as well as our panelists. If you can please click on that evaluation link, we'd greatly appreciate just a few moments of your time to let us know how we're doing great, maybe how we can improve. 

And I think that'll do it. And we will see you all next time. Oh, a quick note. A few people have asked. We will remediate today's session. And once it's fully remediated, we'll share via direct email as well as post to our Cal Adult Ed website. All right, everyone, have a great Tuesday afternoon. Bye.