DULCE DELGADILLO: Get us started. Great, thank you. So good morning, everyone. Welcome. My name is Dulce Delgadillo and I am the Director of Institutional Research and Planning at North Orange Continuing Education and also part of the CAEP TAP integration team at NOCE. And this morning, we are going to be covering a memo that was released out by the State Chancellor's Office and we have our team here joining us. So welcome. 

This is specifically a professional learning forum put on by the CAEP TAP team at NOCE and about the first half an hour is going to be a background as to what the memo is and what the intent of this workshop is. And then we're going to open it up for some questions and really some dialogue as to what are some questions around the specifics of the memo. Just quick note, this is the first of a two-part parter. 

So this first one, we're really going to dive in just broad picture, what is the SX05 memo? What does it mean? Just very broad general information as that was something that participants had mentioned, that that's what they wanted as part of the content. And then in the fall, what we're going to be asking your team is to go back to your consortium and your institutions and to bring a cross functional team back for that second parter in the fall. 

We're really going to be diving into what institutions are doing because we know as part of attendance tracking, many stakeholders are involved in that process. And so really this is the first one where we're going to cover some general information, it's going to be recorded. Please feel free to share it out with your key stakeholders within your consortium and your institutions, and then we'll come back in the fall with that cross-functional team and really dive in. So just a little bit as to what the plan is for today. And I'm going to hand it over to my colleague, Dr. Lisa Mednick Takami. 

LISA MEDNICK TAKAMI: Thank you Dulce. Good morning, everyone. Welcome. Lisa Mednick Takami, pronouns, she/her, hers. I'm beaming to you today from the ancestral lands of the Tongva in Gabrielinos. 

Welcome. I see a number of you have put your name and title or affiliation in the chat, that's wonderful. We like to be able to know who is with us today. I'd also like to take a moment to thank our state leadership who is here from our Chancellor's Office, Mayra Diaz, our CAEP lead, as well as Dean Gary Adams, who is planning on joining us from California Department of Education. 

We would like to welcome Dr. Carolyn Zachary, Neil Kelly, Diana Batista, as well as our colleagues at the integrated CAEP TAP office at the Sacramento County of Education. Together, and in an integrated manner, we all serve more than 480,000 students in the state of California and this is an important opportunity for us all to learn and be together this morning. I'm now going to pass it off to my colleague Chandni, who will go over some housekeeping items. Chandni. 

CHANDNI A: Hello, everyone. Just wanted to let you all know that this meeting is being recorded. The recording and PowerPoint will be released on the Cal Adult Ed website following our remediation and we wanted to ask that you please fill out the survey at the end. We really value your feedback, and use it to improve our webinars. Thank you. 

LISA MEDNICK TAKAMI: Thank you Chandni, and we'll just take a moment and go over our agenda. So we'll take a look at our objectives in just a moment. Really, our focus as Dulce said today is looking at SX05, what is it? Why is it important? And then we'll be joined by Mayra who will be reviewing the memo on the SX05 data element and reporting. 

Then our team, CC TAP will be looking at the three methods of calculating attendance hours for noncredit asynchronous distance education. And we have left time for questions and discussions at the end. If we can now go to our objectives. 

So first, we want for those of you who need to know either from the start or who might need a review to find what the MIS SX05 data element is within the context of California Community Colleges and CAEP consortia. As I mentioned, we want to be able to review and better understand the three methods for calculating attendance hours for noncredit asynchronous distance education. 

And thirdly, we want to be able to collect feedback from you regarding any challenges the colleges may be experiencing in attendance collection for asynchronous distance education. And now I'll pass it over to my colleague, Andy who will be going over our gracious space guidelines. Andy. 

ANDY PHAM: Good morning, everyone. Happy Friday. I'm just here to tell you guys and let you know that we have to be respectful of others and we are all sharing our own opinions here and to be open about everything and just to be welcoming to others and all they have to say on this SX05 memo. Thank you. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: I was on mute, sorry about that. Great. Thank you so much everyone. So like I mentioned in the beginning, when we sent out the registrations for this, we asked participants what are you interested in? What is your level of familiarity with SX05 in order to tailor our content? 

And so what you see up on the screen is exactly what those results were among some of our participants. And so we found out that close to half right, 43% had no familiarity with SX05, what it was, what it meant, what were the impacts associated with it. And we had very few, about 10% that were only very familiar. So if you're like, I have no idea what SX05 is, you are actually in the most common group. So feel free. 

We had a wide range of participants who are familiar with SX05 and others that had no idea. In fact, almost, 48% of them saying that we have no idea what this is. So really, that was the intent of this workshop to really provide a broad overview of just what is SX05 and why does it matter within the context of adult education program reporting. 

In addition, we also asked participants, what would you like to learn about SX05 in this webinar? And so really if you are familiar, we are researchers, so we love data, both quantitatively and qualitatively, and this is a word cloud of the most common themes that came up in this question itself. The larger questions reflect a higher frequency of that theme among the respondents. 

And so what you see here is general information, basics, everything. That was the biggest theme across when asking participants, what are you interested in learning about SX05? But you can also see what other things came up. Best practices, identifying what are best practices was one of the common one. 

CAEP metrics implications. Impact on schedule builders, we had some individuals know that there was going to be impact on some of those entering that data in the system. And then just others, just basics of noncredit attendance. So really today we're going to focus on that big general information basics, everything component. And again, in that part two, we're going to go into the nitty gritty of just how to, the how to of the report, the software, all those other pieces. 

So really quick before we jump into the methodologies and the memo, I just want to do a before and after story on what is SX05. So in the chat, I'm going to go ahead and put in where you can find the actual SX05 memo, I'm sorry, 605 data element. 

And so what you see here up on the screen is going to be really what that data element used to look like prior to COVID and what some of those changes came out as of a result of post-COVID. And so you can see that actually, in fact, prior to summer 2022, this data element actually used to be called enrollment positive attendance hours, because historically institutions, noncredit programs that were submitting positive attendance hours were submitting it through this SX05. 

In addition, those who could submit those hours were only those that were coded, those classes that were coded as positive attendance courses. And so in reality, prior to summer of 2022, MIS SX05 did not include a space for noncredit asynchronous distance education hours. So we are specifically talking within the context of asynchronous distance education course hours and how to report that within SX05. 

So really attendance hours for noncredit programs through MIS were really only reported for either in-person or synchronous distance education courses through a positive attendance model. So what happened after the pandemic? These were pandemic induced changes, like many other things that we saw in our educational system. 

And what ended up happening is that through the pandemic, it was really this accelerated need for a robust reporting mechanism where you could capture asynchronous learning as a system. And so therefore, in summer of 2022, this update which was crucial in addressing those gaps in reporting noncredit asynchronous distance education hours was addressed. And that's what you see on the right hand side of the slide, the update. 

So what was the update? They not only changed the name itself to encompass more than the positive attendance hours, so you see that change from enrollment, positive attendance hours over to enrollment attendance hours. And then you can also see in that bottom referential check that it expanded, In fact, it broadened who was allowed to submit those hours. 

So in the land of MIS, when you code your courses, you are determining whether it's positive attendance or independent study, and we'll go into a little bit about what that means. Independent study has been used historically, for example, asynchronous coursework, it could be correspondence or anything done asynchronously. 

And so what you saw in summer of 2022 is that not only did the system change the name, but it also changed who was allowed to be able to enter those courses. And they expanded it so that you could also include those asynchronous distance education courses that were coded as independent study to be reported into SX05. And so why does this matter? It's about accurate reporting and accurately telling our story. 

You can find these elements through that link. This is one of many elements, I won't go into the details of the sea of MIS, but it is one and we are specifically discussing it in regards to guidance towards asynchronous distance education. So again, why is this important? 

Well, SX05 is really important in a lot of things. It's important in defining cohorts and metrics for a variety of initiatives, including the California Adult Education Program. This element plays a role in defining milestones, gains in programs such as Strong Workforce, and in defining cohorts such as those that we identify for the career technical education outcomes survey, the CTEOS survey for our CTE programs. 

It's also really important to understand that SX05 is contributing to the data quality and the reliability of these dashboards and metrics that are being presented by the Chancellor's Office. And we know that these metrics that are presented is really important for securing our funding for our students and for demonstrating the program's success that we are doing across these programs, through this funding, to our legislatures. So it's all really tied together. 

I know it's all through one element, but it is a very critical part as part of that story. And so it's really about enhancing our reporting, making sure it's accurate reporting, and that we are also in alignment with other partners within our consortia. 

So now I'm going to hand it over to our colleague, Mayra Diaz, who is a program lead for the adult education within the Workforce and Economic Development Division at the California Community Colleges Chancellor's Office. 

MAYRA DIAZ: Thank you Dulce, and good morning, everyone. Happy Friday. I will be covering the memo that was released in a joint effort by the Workforce and Economic Development Division and in collaboration with our Office of Innovation, Data, Evidence and Analytics. 

This memo was released back in early January, a couple of months ago. And so this is our first follow up webinar in collaboration with our CC TAP, North Orange partners to try and provide additional guidance on what the intent of this memo and provide additional clarity around it. We know that there's been a lot of questions, and so we really want to walk you through the different elements of the memo. 

And I think Dulce did a really good job at capturing at a high level overview, the implications and connections and how this ties in. And so though we're represented lives for the adult education program, this has other ties to other dashboards from the Chancellor's Office across the board. So we'll be walking you through this memo. 

And the primary emphasis is on the reporting of noncredit attendance hours for the California Adult Education Program in MIS through SX05 enrollment attendance hour. And I do believe that the team has dropped the link to access this memo. If you have not seen it or have it stored away somewhere, the link should be dropped in the chat so you can get an opportunity to review as we are walking through this. Next slide, please. 

So I'm going to slowly walk you through in the next couple of slides, the background, the purpose, the why behind it. As Dulce had mentioned, primarily, because of the beginning in spring of 2020, with the emergency shift to distance education across the system due to the COVID-19 pandemic, that was one of the primary reasons why we started to see a shift in the landscape of noncredit course modalities. 

And in relation to the accounting methods, this impacted capturing all the noncredit community college students based on established our thresholds in the Adult Education Pipeline. And as previously mentioned, this guidance is specifically tied to the asynchronous aspect of distance education in noncredit instruction. So therefore, we heard for the Chancellor's Office to follow up with guidance as two years after the pandemic and the release of the latest dashboards, we knew that there had been an impact to the data that was being captured. 

And so within the CAEP, within the California Adult Education Program, the program does require that all adult education program agencies that are receiving these funds, the CAEP funding to track the adult learner progress in the seven authorized program areas and report achievements, outcome areas annually. And this is outlined in education code. 

This guidance is specific to community colleges, whether they are recipients of WIOA Title II or not, because MIS is the primary system that colleges report into. And so it is critical for us to be capturing that data as it translates into what gets reported in the Adult Education Pipeline. Now we've highlighted what is the implication to this? Why is this important? Why is this critical? 

Because failure to enter all the student data into MIS could result in under-reporting of student data in the Adult Education Pipeline. As Dulce had mentioned, the SX05 data element, also we capture data that gets reported and captured into other dashboards, such as the Student Success Metrics. And so there's an implication there as well. 

And in the end of the year reporting under this program, we capture this data and report it to the legislature as positive student learning outcomes, essentially drive future funding in California's delivery system. So that is a big implication and it's something that we want to ensure that we are providing this guidance and support to colleges to be able to address the reporting gaps that we've had. Next slide, please. 

So now jumping into the purpose of the guidance memo. So what the intent behind this guidance memo as I had previously mentioned is to provide clarification and interim guidance to Community College Districts on how institutions should be calculating and reporting student level attendance hours for students and noncredit distance education. 

As we said, this is specific to the asynchronous distance education that gets reported through the SX05 MIS data element. SX05 is a data element that also captures the hours and that goes into the Adult Education Pipeline dashboard to essentially track student enrollment and outcomes, which are reported annually to the legislature. 

We did want to know and we know that there has been concern around the capturing of these hours, but we want to reiterate that this guidance is not intended to replace the attendance accounting reporting requirements under the 320 report, as the Chancellor's Office recognizes the differences in methodology and reporting purposes. This guidance is specific to the data collection on SX05 in MIS and is distinct from the 320 report. Next slide, please. 

So I am not going to go through that entire slide, but essentially, the guidance that was provided in the memo provides two different sections. And one of the ones that, most importantly for noncredit courses that are being taught in-person, there's no changes there in using the positive attendance accounting methods, as well as any noncredit distance education courses that are being taught synchronously, given that this guidance is specific to the asynchronous component. 

And so therefore, in the guidance number two, for students enrolled in asynchronous noncredit distance education courses, what we've done is aligned the required reporting similar to the National Reporting System for Adult Education. And the three methods that are presented, they align to the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act, so WIOA Title II. 

For those of you that may be familiar, the California Adult Education Program education code is aligned to the WIOA. There is some alignment to the WIOA legislative requirements. And so therefore, when it comes to the data collection and why we are incorporating these three allowable methods is to continue that consistent alignment. 

And so we recognize that there are going to be, I want to say that as of now, we have about 22 community college districts that receive WIOA II funding that is administered by the California Department of Education. However, we recognize that the rest of the community colleges that are not a part of that 22 don't receive WIOA and are not familiar with this. 

And so we want to be able to provide follow up guidance, hence this webinar and working very closely with North Orange Continuing Education as part of CC TAP to help provide that follow up support. We want to note that the three methods we'll be walking you through in the next slide, so I'm not going to go through each and one of those. I'll skip over to the next slide. 

And then finally, my slide is, just as I mentioned, we will be working very closely with North Orange Continuing Education, who's a part of the CAEP technical assistance project, to be able to offer that support to noncredit institutions. As I reiterated, we know that a majority of our community college noncredit programs are not WIOA Title II funded, so therefore may not be familiar with these three methods. 

We will be following up with additional webinar support and are looking to release an FAQ document to help further assist colleges with reporting under this guidance. So I am going to hand it back over to Lisa and Dulce. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Great. Thank you Mayra. So we did a little bit of down memory lane with SX05 and Mayra provided a great comprehensive summary of what the intent of this memo was, which was released out in January and its alignment to WIOA. 

So now we're going to go into the three methodologies and some examples of what these methodologies look like. And these are the three methodologies that are approved by the National Reporting System for Adult Education, which is being guided by federal guidance. So that is being brought down by the US Department of Education as approved methodologies for this type of reporting. So that's really what we're going to be discussing here. 

Like Mayra mentioned, we do have some WIOA funded partners within our consortiums for CAEP. And so these three methodologies are really familiar to all of you if you've been to any of the CASAS trainings or regional trainings. But for those who are not familiar with WIOA, definitely take this as a resource to share it out with other stakeholders within your institution as we're going to do a broad overview of what these three methodologies are. 

Also, I just want to take the time to thank and acknowledge Jay Wright from CASAS TOPSpro Enterprise. He was very helpful and is very knowledgeable. If you are in the land of WIOA, you know who Jay Wright is and I just want to take the time to thank him and acknowledge him for sharing these resources. These slides are adapted by several of his presentations and so that's really where this is coming from. 

So again, we encourage you to really take this and share it out with other key stakeholders within your own institutions and then bring them back. Bring them back for that second part when you have your cross-functional team and we go into the nitty gritty of these. 

So the first one that we are talking about is clock time. So clock time is defined as tracking the actual time a student spends engaged in his distance education course. So historically, this has been done through programs like correspondence education in prisons. So asynchronous coursework or when that is happening in remote parts of the state. 

And then COVID hit, and we know that technology was right around the corner. And so now really what we're talking about is, what does this look like in an asynchronous distance education setting within a software framework, by using a software? So it's really important to note that this time captured, whether you're using a software or you are doing a clock in time in some way, shape, or form, that the time that you're capturing is the time the student is engaged in the coursework for that specific course. 

So if they are participating in multiple courses, identifying a way that you can isolate what is the time that, that student spent in that particular course, whether it's when they logged in and they are doing their coursework and then they log out and that is being recorded. So what we're going to see on the next slide is a practical example of what does this look like in practice. 

So a student is completing asynchronous distance education work through an educational software such as Burlington, Aztec. Those are the softwares that we have heard before where they can clock in or they can log in and it records the time that they are spending in that asynchronous coursework. Then that time is being recorded specifically in that software, and is tied to that course and that specific student. 

And then at the end of the semester, you would be taking all of the hours or all of that time, it could be one hour or it could be the 45 hours but at the end of when that course has ended or the end of your semester, you're going to sum up all of those hours and you're going to find a way to implement and make sure that those hours are being incorporated into your local MIS processes. So one of the questions that has come up in this is, who should I involve in this? 

Well, whoever is involved in your local institutional MIS process should be aware of this coming down the pipeline. So again, this is one example of one model where you would be using clock time through a software where you would be recording in that software how long that student engaged in that coursework, and then you would be taking the sum of those hours per student, per class, and then populating SX05 with those hours. 

So now I'm going to hand it over to my colleague Dr. Harpreet Uppal, and she's going to go over the second type of methodology. 

JASON MAKABALI: I was going to take the-- 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Oh, I apologize. I'm sorry. I apologize. Our amazing colleague Jason Makabali will be going over the next slide. 

JASON MAKABALI: I'm just going to briefly talk about the teacher verification model. The teacher verification model, as it says on the slide, assigns a fixed number of hours of credit for each assignment based on instructor faculty determination of the extent to which a participant engaged or completed the assignment. 

So it's very, very really granular and the idea behind the teacher verification method is that the instructor knows the student, the instructor knows the assignment. And using the professional judgment of the instructor, the instructor is allowed to give full or partial credit to the extent to which a student is actually completing assignments and actually participating in the class. 

So an example of this would be, next slide, please, that like, for example, you're using an educational software, say, Canvas that doesn't necessarily record the hours of instruction in the class, so you can't use clock time and you don't actually have any real assessments tied to each individual like module or there's nothing that allows you to overall assess everything all in one go in a sense. 

So you can use the teacher verification model to track students as they complete lessons within the software and then either complete or participate in. And then the instructor will basically know how much progress a student is making as they progress through the class. 

So as they go basically lesson by lesson or class by class or assignment by assignment, and teacher verification gives you that flexibility to be able to basically trust your instructor and trust your curriculum to basically assign hours based on the whole of how much an assignment would be worth. So this is limited by what your course outline of record would say. 

You can't just start giving out a billion hours to everyone because they think it's going to take billion hours. It's within reason and it's within whatever your local curriculum model actually says, your assignments are actually worth. So next, Harpreet will speak on the learner mastery model. 

HARPREET UPPAL: Thank you Jason. Dulce, next slide. So learner mastery. So the learner mastery model assigns a fixed number of hours of credit based on the participant passing a test on the content of each lesson. 

So what this really means is when a student is working on the curriculum and the material through the lessons that are part of the class, and when they feel they have mastered the material, they take it test. So how do we proxy hours through this model? So these are predetermined hours either by your instructor for that class, by your local curriculum team, or if you're using a particular software, it might be a reasonable estimate of time that has been allocated as necessary to complete assignments and lessons. 

So hours are awarded then to the students once they pass a test which demonstrates mastery of the content. And passing a test is really based on your local policy. The recommendations by NRS is typically 70% of proficiency before you can award proxy hours to students and considered a learner mastery. Next slide, please. 

So this is an example of a learner mastery model, and here you see we provide an example that Jay had from a class with 12 modules where different set of hours are assigned to each module. So as you can see, like module 1 has one hour indicated, module 2 has 2.5 hours. Again, these are predetermined hours that either the system that you're using is software that you're using might have recommendations for those credit hours. 

If not, this might be coming from your local curriculum office, from your faculty who are putting the curriculum together. And therefore, depending on the number of modules the student completes, so those sum of hours are then associated and recorded for that student. So in this particular example, if a student only completes module 1 and 2, then you would add your one hour. 

As long as they complete the module and pass the assessment afterwards, then module 1 and 2 would be 1 plus 2.5, so 3.5 allocated to the student. Next slide, please. So there may be some cases we're using obviously more than one model and we want to share a few examples of what that would look- 

DULCE DELGADILLO: I think we lost Harpreet. 

LISA MEDNICK TAKAMI: I think we lost Harpreet. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: I can go ahead and take it over. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: So we know and we have heard this from other individuals in the field that it doesn't always look like one model, you're not always just using. You may have some level of hybrid where there is you're meeting one on one synchronously and there's an asynchronous component. And I see that Harpreet was able to join us back, so I'll hand it over again. Thanks Harpreet. 

HARPREET UPPAL: Yes, Thank you. I'm so sorry, my internet has been so unstable and I'm even tried to be on MiFi. So the next slide Dulce for the example of mixed delivery methods. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Perfect. 

HARPREET UPPAL: So in this example, this is an example of a HyFlex model. So where we have students who are attending a live session and those who missed the live session, in a Zoom class session and they're participating asynchronously. So if you want to just take a second to read, the scenario here, they're attending two hours a week online via Zoom. 

And then for those who missed the live session, they can access the recording and participate by watching the recordings of the lesson. And then at the end, students are completing a short quiz or an assessment that the instructor may have put together. And so what this model is using is using a clock time, so synchronous hours from Zoom, and it's also using learner mastery, where the students are asked to complete an assessment at the end to show mastery on the content. 

And an important note to make for this one is that we cannot double dip on hours allocated to students. So those students who may be attending the live session and also decide to watch the session, same sessions asynchronously, so they're doing both things. So we can only allocate them the hours of the Zoom session or the asynchronous session, however you decide locally. 

But we cannot give them an addition of both types of models and call it like four hours, for example, instead of just allocating two hours. Next slide, please. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: There we go. 

HARPREET UPPAL: So this is another example of a mixed delivery method and this is a hybrid, synchronous, and asynchronous class. So in this example, we have students who are attending both live Zoom sessions, and they're also completing a portion of their class asynchronously to get full credit. So for example, they might have Zoom session once a week for an hour, and then there are material in Canvas that they have to complete as part of the overall course. 

And in this, the two methods that would be used to track hours is clock time, so the synchronous Zoom time and then learner mastery because at the end the example shows that they have to have a passing score on a quiz to receive the proxy hours to show that they mastered the content of the class. So this is another way to show mixed methods to track hours. And then I believe it's back to you Dulce. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Great. Thank you. So that was very broad, again, a general information level of what each of those three methodologies entail. One of the resources that we are-- so at the end of this presentation, we do have a list of resources available as provided on how to track asynchronous distance education, guidance from US Department of Education, which is handed through OCTAE or OTAN. 

In addition, what we have found is that obviously this is US Department of Education guidance and therefore it spans across our state borders. So we have found a really helpful tool from the state of Texas that actually puts in all of the softwares that are approved by the US government, so the National Reporting System and what methodology you would be using. 

So whether it would be Aztec, and it shows how you would be using that methodology. And in fact, actually, I think what I will do is I will showcase this. But what you can see here is these are the approved list of distance curriculum as guided by also the Department of Ed. And it gives you an example of how systems and other adult education providers are using these softwares. 

So for Aztec, this is what you would be using and what would this look like? If you are using Burlington, what would that look like? Cambridge. And so this is a really helpful resource on our end that we were able to identify. 

So a couple of things. We did want to open it up to everyone for questions. I have two quick questions in regards to just where we pulled-- these were questions that came up in our participants list. So, again, who should know about this information at my college? Well, we're going to say everybody who is involved in your attendance tracking methods. 

So whether it's your IT, your research, admissions, and records. And then also to think about if your MIS submission, is at a multicollege? If you're a multicollege district or a single college district as well. 

The other piece is directly connected to that document I just shared, which is what are the software recommendations to support the collection of the attendance accounting? And so really it's whatever serves your needs. So we know that in the system, we have a variety of softwares. We have used Canvas, we have used Aztec, we have used Burlington, Taber, or other systems. So really, it's what have you been using historically? 

If you are a WIOA school, you have had to identify what methodology you have been using for asynchronous distance education. So if you are a WIOA school, I encourage you to also maybe look at that documentation locally. 

So I'm going to go ahead and open it up for questions again. And actually, I wanted to see a couple of these, so I'm going to go down here and, can dual enrollment participate in noncredit courses? So I believe there is, an adult education dual enrollment program, that is my understanding. 

I'm not sure what the documentation is associated with it, if anybody has the legislation, but I do believe there is a adult dual enrollment program. Seems faculty should be. Yes, Garrett, please ask your questions. 

GARRETT RIECK: Hi. I'm sorry, my voice is a little lost after a rough week. So I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this a little bit, and I was chatting with Scott as well. So if you're a non-WIOA school and you're teaching most of your asynchronous classes through Canvas, I'm assuming that's going to be a large percentage of this group, maybe, maybe not. 

But the clock time model is not going to work because Canvas is not a reliable tracker of time spent because of various things like clicking on links and exiting out or leaving it open and forgetting about it. Learning mastery could possibly work, but I know for our school teacher verification model would probably be the best option. But in order to do that, we would have to basically redesign all of our Canvas shells, which is going to be a ton of work. 

So I'm just trying to make sure that I'm clear on what the guidelines are. So currently, with most of our asynchronous online classes, we have them set up to confirm that students are actively engaged at the 20% and 60% mark, which is fairly easy to do by having things like orientation quizzes or early on assignments that are pretty low stakes, setting them up again at the 60% mark. But we would have to now redesign all of the Canvas shells to track the hours. 

So make modules a certain amount of hours and things like that. That is a huge, huge lift for our college and I would imagine any other college that's going to have to do this. So I just want to confirm that that's what we need to do instead of simply tracking the census based 20% and 60% mark of actively engaged students. We need to actually track the hours for assignments that are being completed instead, which, like I said, is a complete redesign of Canvas shells for all instructors that are teaching asynchronous classes. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: So I'll take a stab at it first and then Mayra and Erik, if anybody wants to jump in as well. So in terms of the census, census is tied to 320 processes, which has nothing to do with MIS. This is an MIS process in terms of how the recommendations on how to report asynchronous distance education noncredit courses and it's going to depend. 

For some of ours, if there is a mixture, then you can probably do a mixture of it, and not have to redo the whole piece. And I think somebody had mentioned it on here that it may involve your curriculum faculty in determining what are the hours assigned to each of those assignments and then tying it for the learner mastery. 

Now I'm not sure what your curriculum process looks like or if it has to go, if that's a significant, or if you can go back to your CORs that were approved in your curriculum and allocate those hours across in order to not have to go through an entire revamp of redoing that entire curriculum. Because through your COR, you already have hours of instruction that have been identified by your faculty. 

And so that's really where you're identifying those hours of instruction, how am I going to break them up in this module and populate SX05? Mayra or Erik. 

GARRETT RIECK: I know locally that we don't have hours assigned to each of the content areas and objectives in our course. 

ERIK COOPER: Garrett, I'm going to interrupt you for a second because I do want to calm us down a little bit on the MIS reporting requirement. So there is the distinction between what we're asking for in MIS which is not used for apportionment. It does, as others have mentioned, have implications for the CAEP reporting. 

So we want to make that distinction that what you're reporting in MIS should mirror and be close to what you're reporting for your 320. But, for example, you can make the decision, and we've approved this for-- I had this conversation with Jim Kennedy and some others, ran this by Tony Cordova at the Chancellor's Office in MIS. 

If you want to report and use the two census model and you're giving a proportion of your enrollment in SX05 at the first census, and then you're giving a student full credit for the full enrollment if they've met second census, that's OK for our MIS purposes. However, in terms of your local control and being able to pass an audit if your faculty were audited and in terms of what you're claiming for apportionment, you would still need to follow the procedures that are in the student attendance accounting manual. 

So you're still going to have to meet those requirements. I know that part of it sucks in terms of the faculty compensation piece. If there are things that you all are going to need to do, but it's a little bit like how are we collecting positive attendance for other courses? We're going to have to find some mechanisms to make that work. 

But I do want to make sure we're clearly separating what the MIS reporting requirement is versus the 320 reporting requirement, the FTES reporting requirement. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: And Mayra, did you want to add anything? Thank you Erik. Thank you. 

MAYRA DIAZ: Thank you. I think Erik did a really good job at highlighting that. I did want to just reiterate that whenever we release this guidance, we took into account, I know there's been questions about a timeline, when is this supposed to go into effect? So there's a reason why we did not particularly set a date for this requirement because we knew it would be new to some colleges. 

And therefore, as we pointed out in earlier slides, we are going to be releasing additional support, additional guidance, technical assistance to assist colleges with this process. We wanted to make you aware of this, if you're receiving the CAEP funds, funding your programs, it is a requirement but we are working with you and we'll be providing additional support and resources to assist colleges with this reporting requirement and to give you the time to work at a local level to determine what discussions need to take place, as Dulce mentioned. 

And just reiterate that, there will be an additional follow up webinar to this, this is just the first one. All of these questions and concerns help us understand the need that you are going to have so that we can put together the resources and follow up with additional support. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: We're at 10:48, so I want to make sure we have enough time. I see Scott you have your hand up. 

SCOTT SILVERMAN: Thank you. I appreciate the clarifications although I will admit I could probably use a whole webinar about how MIS reporting and apportionment reporting on 320 don't either relate to each other and could be different. Is there any bandwidth or possibility at all that the Chancellor's Office would consider simplifying noncredit attendance reporting as we are doing for credit reporting? 

I personally believe, I think a lot of us in the field think that noncredit census, dual census, whether it's D or not, maybe better than doing positive attendance and three other versions of reporting. I think the cost to districts, the local cost of extra compensation should not be understated. I know that that's maybe not the Chancellor's Office concern, but we are already giving out several stipends in noncredit ESOL alone and that we have to do, of course, because of WIOA. 

But if we can avoid doing that for every other noncredit program, I think it'd be very beneficial. And whatever we can do to simplify this would be really great. I just don't understand why we would have MIS data that's different than what we're doing for apportionment. How are we supposed to work on both of those at the same time, making sure that things are accurate in both cases? So I really would like to have some more attention paid on that. 

ERIK COOPER: Would love more attention paid on that. So let me agree with you, Scott. This is one of the challenges that we've had historically, is that the information that's reported in the enrollment files does not necessarily match what colleges are claiming for apportionment on the 320 and there are a variety of reasons for that. 

That's something that the MIS team, research team, we've been having conversations with Vice Chancellor Wrenna Finche about trying to make sure that we have better consistency between where we are in the 320 versus where we are with calculations that the MIS team does. As an example of this, if you look at data mart, I know it's everybody's favorite tool, so don't jump out right away, but if you look at the FTS calculations in data mart, it very clearly says that those are approximations. 

If you look at the notes and the details down at the bottom, and part of the reason that they are approximations is the Chancellor's Office does not collect all of the information necessary to make an exact calculation for what you claim for apportionment. We don't have term length multiplier, for summer terms we don't know if it's carried forward into the prior year or following year. There's just a lot of information that we don't get. 

And so we would need to start collecting from that colleges to get to a place where we could fully match what is collected in the 320 report. We are totally having those conversations, but we're not quite there yet. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Great. Thank you Erik. And I just want to make sure it's my understanding regardless of the course is a census-based or noncensus-based, because again, census is tied to your 320. You're still reporting SX05. SX05 is for everything, correct Erik? Almost? 

ERIK COOPER: Sorry, there are some dependencies in XP1 that changes whether it is what's reported in SX05. Because if XP1 is P or E, I forget what the exact definitions of those, then you actually wouldn't report an exact value in SX05, you'd report like the default 888-- 

DULCE DELGADILLO: 888 or 999. 

ERIK COOPER: --or 999. 

RAJ: So sorry, this is Raj. For census classes, if you look at the first line of the domain, it says SX05 is only for noncensus classes. So the challenge is, I think at some point the state sent an advisory that we can use the old census methodology for hybrid noncredit. 

So the challenge is, the section setups have to be consistent to be reported to 320 and MIS at the same time, they cannot be different, even though the reporting is different, but the section setups at the colleges will have to be consistent to report into MIS and 320 without any major workloads on the resources. 

ERIK COOPER: And just for clarification, Raj, whatever he's referring to as dual census is the alternative attendance accounting method as described on beginning on page 118 of the student attendance accounting manual. 

RAJ: I think the primary question is, from our end at least, do we move away from identifying hybrid noncredit from census to a different methodology? That's the primary question, and we need a clarification from the state in writing that we can do so. 

ERIK COOPER: We'll need to take that one back, I think. 

RAJ: Thank you. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Thank you. But that's going into the weeds of the actual building of the sections in your system. Raj, are you a banner school? 

RAJ: So that's the basis of the reporting on SX05 because once we get clear guidance, then it's easier for us to manage reporting SX05 for all noncredit classes. It doesn't matter whether you're a banner or illusion or anything else. The basic question needs to be clarified, do we move away from noncredit census, dual census classes, for hybrid? That's the primary question. Because right now open entry, open exit is definitely positive attendance. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Well, all of open entry, open exit. So you can still have a distance education asynchronous noncredit class that's open entry, open exit. It's just would be tracking attendance at the census 1 and a census 2 as part of the apportionment reporting. But if you decide to use SX05 and report those hours, then it's developing a methodology to track those hours within whether it's clocking time, learner mastery, or teacher verification. 

RAJ: I think the challenge is once you say sensors, then we forget about SX05 at this point. That's the main challenge. Once you bring the sensors 1 and sensors 2 into the limelight, we are forgetting about SX05. We can still track the hours for any audit purposes, but we cannot report them on SX05 primarily because it's a census class. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: If you're tracking again, it would be implementing a methodology to be able to track those hours from 0 to census 1. So if it's a 40 hours COR over the course of 18 months, hitting 20% of that 40 hours COR, what does that look like hitting? 

First of all, thank you Raj, thank you everybody for expressing your questions and what is happening at your local level and your institutions. We are definitely going to be taking this information. Like I said in the beginning of this webinar, this is a two part series. So today we really covered the basics of what is SX05 and what are the implications, what is the memo. 

And then after, again, this is going to be recorded, please share back with your own institutions. And then in the fall, we will be convening again for a much more in depth. We hope that you bring back a cross-functional team as to those involved in your MIS process so we can really get into the nitty gritty as to what are institutions doing and getting back into what are some of those best practices and what does this look like in practice. 

Angelica, I see your hand up. 

ANGELICA RAMIREZ: Yes. Hi. Good morning, everybody. I just want to clarify to make sure I'm understanding correctly is, SX05 is the attendance tracking, and we're implementing it so we can start tracking the hours for CAEP reporting. But for classes that include asynchronous components, and our census-based apportionment, once we start tracking the hours or reporting the hours because some of institutions we have been tracking them already. 

But once we start populating into MIS both the hours and we have the census data, will they continue to default to alternate accounting method for apportionment? And that's a Chancellor's question, I think that's one of the areas that we would see clarity because it does make a difference. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: So right off the bat those are two separate processes. So 320 alternative attendance accounting method, that's a methodology in which you are using for apportionment funds. Right now we are specifically talking about SX05 and what are some of the methodologies to utilize to populate SX05 specifically for your asynchronous distance education courses. 

Angelica, I do think, though for our next webinar, we will make sure that we have a distinction as to why and how your alternative attendance accounting method that's taking census 1, census 2 times your multiterm length multiplier divided by 525, why is that completely different than what you're submitting at MIS? 

ANGELICA RAMIREZ: And definitely I think that would be something that would be very useful because I know internally in our district we've had some discussions related of how do we make sure that we are still able to claim the alternate accounting method apportionment, because when we run the math, that ends up being more favorable than, say, just straight PA for asynchronous hours when we're tracking the hours. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: And that's in the realm of apportionment for CCFS320 and the- 

ANGELICA RAMIREZ: And I think my point is making sure that we have clear and explicit clarity of that because I know that the internal discussion we've had in our district, there have been some pushback going like, oh. We've articulated, hey, it's two different processes, but when I've been asked, hey, show me where it says that, I have not been able to produce it. 

So if we can have some information where some guidance, other than that it's explicit, that would definitely help alleviate some of the concerns in the field have related to the hour and census reporting simultaneously for some classes. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: Great. Thank you Angelina. 

ANGELICA RAMIREZ: Thank you. 

DULCE DELGADILLO: I guess we're definitely going to be taking this back and again, taking your feedback, what's in the chat, what we have gotten feedback in terms of just within our inboxes and the CC TAP inbox as well. So thank you so much. 

Just really quick, we do have a resources, so thank you. Somebody had put those in. Those are some resource guidelines specifically from the US Department of Education through OTAN or OCTAE on how to track distance education asynchronous coursework as guided through WIOA and the US Department of Education. So definitely we are going to circle back on this and have a discussion, share out some best practices. 

And I just want to let everybody know, thank you for your engagement today. Thank you to Erik Cooper and to Mayra for joining us and for our CDE colleagues for engaging in this work with us as well. And I hope you all have a great, long weekend. And if we don't see you over the summer, I hope you have a great and restful summer. 

Thank you so much, everyone. Have a great one. 

CHANDNI A: Sorry, really quickly, I did drop the webinar survey for anyone. 

LISA MEDNICK TAKAMI: Thank you Chandni. Thank you for doing that.