Hello, everyone. Welcome to Successful Approaches to Difficult Employee Conversations. This is an educational presentation provided by Deer Oaks EAP services as part of the 2024 Deer Oaks Supervisor Excellence webinar series. I'm Greg Brannan from Deer Oaks, great to be with you today. Before we get started, I want to make sure our technology is working for us. If you can, please locate the Raise Hand icon in the GoToWebinar software that you'll find on your screen. And if you can see the slides clearly and hear my voice clearly, could you please click on the Raise Hand icon now?

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This is the 12th year that we've made this series available to quarterly series with a different topic to help supervisors continue to enhance their skills, and increase their effectiveness in managing their teams. And so this is the second session. We did one earlier in the year, back in January, and it was titled The Keys to Creating a Thriving Team Culture. If you missed that session, it was recorded. You can still hit Reply to your GoToWebinar invitation today and ask our staff to send you the link to that, that presentation, the recording of that presentation.

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Thank you, folks. All right. Let's go ahead and get started. All right. As a jumping off place today, I want to remind us all of the importance of collaborative relationships. And I know I'm preaching to the choir about this. But what I mean by collaborative relationships is work is a supervisor and their employees working together in partnership.

We've all probably worked for a supervisor or two in the past that maybe we're not very collaborative. They may have had a communication approach that was more directive. And that's not unusual. Still to this day, I mean, there are still supervisors out there that are pretty directive. What I mean by directive is, for example, they'll do 80% of the talking when they're interacting with their staff. They'll be when they assign work, they'll be telling the employees what to do and how to do it.

If there's problems to solve or issues to deal with, they'll be the ones consistently making recommendations for how the problem should be solved or how the issue should be addressed. And so they operate from a communication standpoint, more as a directive person, a directive manager than a-- or supervisor than a partner, than someone that's working with the staff. And so a lot of one way communication when supervisors are more directive in their approach.

I struggled with that early in my career. I'll be honest with you, and some of it's because I'm an extrovert, but I really did. I struggled. I realized that I was doing too much talking and I did get some additional training. And I realized I've been a supervisor now for about 30 years, I've been with Deer Oaks for the last 13. And when I-- so I realize now that when I do too much talking, if I'm too directive in my approach, if I'm too opinionated and make too many suggestions, and not do a good enough job of asking people for input, getting employees more involved in decisions that we're making, giving them an opportunity to weigh in on how we're going to solve problems or how we're going to develop plans and set goals.

When I'm too directive like that, the team isn't as engaged. And so I've really worked hard over the last-- especially the last 12 or 14 years to be more collaborative. And really my goal nowadays when I'm leading people and working with my team at Deer Oaks, my goal is to give people a voice, consistently because when people feel like they have a voice.

And I know I'm preaching to the choir about this, when supervisors or managers regularly ask employees for their input, give them an opportunity to weigh in on the plans and the goals, make them a partner in solving problems and developing work plans, when that's the case, employees, of course, are going to-- they're going to take more ownership, they're going to buy in more, they're going to feel more a part of things.

And they're also going to feel more valued and respected when their supervisor regularly asks for their input and their opinion. And that's important, folks, because if we're dictating as supervisors, if we're directing too much and dictating too much, employees can feel like they're not a part of the process, and they can feel like we're not respectful enough of their capabilities, and we don't value their input enough. And when that happens, employees typically won't feel as respected, and they oftentimes, won't be as engaged and motivated to do their best work.

So it's really important that we strive to be as interactive and collaborative with employees, and regularly give them a voice as possible. All right. So let's talk a little bit more about why some difficult conversations don't work very well. I know we've all had some frustrating, difficult conversations in our careers, right? All of us have. But here are some of the reasons why I find that difficult conversations can either go south or just not be very effective.

So the first is what I just mentioned, if they're approached in too directive of a way. If the supervisor is doing too much of the talking or they're giving too much direction, or expressing their opinion too often and just not bringing the employee into the conversation, the employee could feel like they're being micromanaged, they can feel like they're not being respected. And that, of course, could get in the way of having a difficult conversation. Folks just think about this. Everyone wants a voice, everyone wants to feel like they're working with someone when they're dealing with issues.

But especially during difficult conversations when the content is stressful or the situation is difficult, people, especially want to feel like they're a part of things. And to be more comfortable, they want to feel like they're a partner, and that they've got a voice, and that the supervisor's interested in their opinion. And even if it's a performance issue that the supervisor is coaching them around, employees typically want to feel like they're not just being talked down to or talked at, but they're being talked with. They're being collaborated with, they're being brought into the process. So it's important for us to remember, obviously.

And then here's some other reasons why those conversations don't go well at times. Sometimes because they're stressful. And if the supervisor and/or the employer are feeling really stressed out about the topic of the conversation, or maybe when they came into the conversation, they're already maybe on deadline or feeling overwhelmed. And I think most of us recognize when we're highly stressed, we're typically not as patient, and it's harder to have those conversations more comfortably with each other.

So we need to remember to keep our stress level under control so that we can have those conversations more comfortably. And then emotions get in the way. Sometimes when we're having a difficult conversation, it's going to be emotional. It might be a high stakes kind of a topic where people, both parties have a really strong opinion, and feel really invested in getting their point across and hoping the outcome comes down the way that they want it to.

And when our emotions get in the way, we can get more frustrated with each other, more upset with each other, more angry with each other. And then we may tend to react more emotionally during those conversations and maybe get escalated or again, maybe approach the conversation in a less comfortable way instead of calmly and rationally responding to each other. So of course, difficult conversations can sometimes be avoided because they're stressful. Difficult conversations can be stressful, and they can be emotional, and sometimes they can be uncomfortable.

And so, of course, it's not unusual for people to avoid things that are uncomfortable or stressful. And so obviously, sometimes people avoid difficult conversations because they take a lot of time and effort. Or if you're dealing with someone having a difficult conversation with if you're a supervisor, having a difficult conversation with a staff member, that typically is difficult to deal with. And we all have people on our teams that are not easy to get along with or easy to deal with.

And so we may avoid those conversations because they're uncomfortable. They can be exhausting. They can be emotionally tasking or taxing when you're into a difficult conversation with someone, especially around a difficult topic, or if the other person is being stubborn or being argumentative in the conversation, making it more uncomfortable. And so, of course, going into these conversations, we can experience anxiety, and that can trigger our stress response, or our fight or flight response.

I know that I have put these conversations oftentimes in the past, just because they're so uncomfortable and I feel anxious about it. Absolutely. Another reason that people may avoid these conversations is because we're, we don't want to lose the other person's approval or we're concerned-- we may be concerned what the other person's going to think or what that employee is going to think if we're too direct and how we confront the issue.

But it is important for us to remember, folks, even though you may be tempted to put them off, that if you avoid discussing difficult issues with employees, sometimes the issue won't go away, and it may even get worse. I remember one example of a supervisor with a newer employee, I think the employee had been with the organization a couple of months, and one day the employee came in about 15 minutes late. And this was the first time that employee was late and the supervisor decided not to confront it, just to let it go.

It was the first time it had happened, even though everyone on the team clearly knew that everyone had to be in at 9:00 because their telephone started ringing, and it's a customer service based organization, so they needed to have everyone on the-- available to pick up the phone at night. But the supervisor decided it was the first time it had happened with this employee, that they just let it go. Well, two months later, the employee came in about 25 minutes late. And now, it was the second time. And now it was starting to get uncomfortable.

And the supervisor still didn't confront it because he thought, it's only been a couple of times in the first four months, I don't think it's really a habit. But then a month later, the employee came in a half an hour late. So now you got three times in five months, where the employee had come in late. And the supervisor realized that some of that was on them because they kind of let it go. And then they realized, well, because I let it go, this employee just got worse and worse with the behavior. Folks, remember that silence, that management silence sometimes can be perceived as agreement or permission.

So, for example, if you don't say anything when someone comes in late or maybe hands in some subpar work and you just kind of let it go because it's the first time, or you don't want to make a big deal about it, or maybe you just don't feel like getting into a difficult conversation at that point, it can get worse. The next time around the employee can move, go further down that continuum of doing things in a subpar way.

And so it is important that we do have those conversations on a timely basis when they happen. And when you begin to have the skills we're talking about today to be more collaborative, I realize that probably up until about 10 years ago when I would from time to time put these conversations off, one of the main reasons I was putting them off is I just didn't have a comfortable approach. I was still pretty directive back in those days, or at least a lot of the times I was still kind of directive.

And so when I would be direct with the employee, like for example, if the employee handed in subpar work and was direct and confronting it, sometimes the employee would be more defensive or it would be an uncomfortable conversation. But now that I've learned to be more collaborative and I'm going to go through some processes for approaching collaborative conversations in a more comfortable way here in a moment.

But now that I've got some tools to be more collaborative, and I can use a more comfortable approach in confronting an employee if there's a behavior issue, or if someone comes in late, or turns in subpar work, I'm less likely to put it off because I find that a collaborative approach is more easily accepted by the employee. It's easier for me to have as the supervisor because it's not as confronting. It's more of a conversation with two people respectfully talking with each other.

All right. So let me lay out an effective collaboration model. And what I mean by an effective collaboration model is this is an approach. This isn't a script, folks, but it's an approach. And it's really an approach to having a really comfortable two-way conversation where both parties feel like they're in a respectful conversation together where both are interested not only in sharing what they think, but interested in asking the other person what they think.

And so let me lay this out of in three steps. And you all recognize this. You've all had tons of conversations like this throughout your career. Absolutely. And you may not have kind of framed it the way I did in these three steps, but I want to lay it out to show why it's important to do it, and approach it a certain way so that it's received by the other person or the employee as a partnership, as a collaborative interaction.

So step number one, if you're about to have a collaborative conversation with an employee, would be just to go up to the employee or jump on a Zoom, or Teams call, or pick up the phone, however you're going to interact with that employee, and just basically introduce what you need to talk to the employee about. But it's important that we just introduce what we want to talk to them about and not go right into giving our suggestion, giving our opinion, et cetera. And that's the piece where people tend to not be collaborative enough, is they get-- they start the conversation.

And let me give you an example is, say to the employee something like this, hey, that monthly report you turned in last month, I liked this and that about it, but I really felt like it was lacking the normal charts, and graphs, and narrative that you normally include. And so here from this point forward, can you please do this, this, this, and this to beef it up, and get it back to me by tomorrow. That would be an example of staying directive in that conversation instead of collaborative.

So again, we're step one in a collaborative conversation ought to be introduce the topic, but then you ask the employee what they think and get their input. A lot of times people start step one and they just keep on going. So here's what I want to talk to you about, and here's what I need you to do, and here are the next steps, and here's what-- here's my opinion in that, and please remember to do that. And folks, again, that becomes more of a directive approach.

I had one tongue in cheek friend of mine who's got a good sense of humor said that-- a colleague of mine said that if the manager is doing all the talking in a conversation with the employee, it's not a conversation, it's a speech. And that made me smile, but it's really true. If the managers-- and I've done that sometimes. I've gone into a conversation with an employee and I've kicked it off and I just keep going. And then don't forget this, and then we need to do that, and let's remember to do this also at the end of that, and then I want you to follow up.

And before you know it, you've done 80% or 90% of the talking and the employees just kind of sit there. And we want to avoid that, that can feel like when someone feels like they're being talked at like that, it can feel like they're being talked down to, it can feel like they're not-- that their opinion isn't valued. It can feel like they're being micromanaged. So we've got to be careful. We want our employees to know that we value them and we're interested in their opinion, and we want to work with them. We don't want to talk at them, we want to talk with them, and have a good two-way conversation.

So that's why this particular model is really effective and I try to follow it in my mind's eye. Again, it's not a script, so let me give you the same example, doing it more collaboratively. Let's say my step one is, I bring the employee in. I say, hey, I need to talk to you about this month's monthly report. And of course, we all start with something positive. I really liked the opening. I think you did a really good job sort of laying out the summary of what we did in April.

But I need to point out to you that, I just need to bring to your attention that the report didn't have the same charts and graphs that you normally attach. And I just was wondering why? And we need to stop right there and not go down into telling the employee what they need to do to fix it yet, but give the employee-- step two is the most important part of a collaborative conversation, when ask the employee, what do you think? Or can you tell me why? Or how do you think we can improve this? Or whatever the case may be, what's your opinion?

Is giving the employee an opportunity to give input. This is where it becomes a two-way conversation, a true partnership, a collaboration is asking the employee, can you tell me why? And let's say the employee says, I just had a really busy month, and I didn't want to miss the deadline, so I kind of cut some corners this month and just try to get it into you because I didn't want it to be late. And then I would take it back to step one again, or you can-- and just basically say, OK, I understand. I've had months like that too, when I've been really slammed.

And so I get that, but this particular report because it does go to our department head, is really something that we can't shortcut. And so if I give you a little bit more time, if I give you a couple more days and I'm going to give this back to the employee again in step two, if I give you a couple more days, what could you do to bring the quality of this month's report up to the level that you normally do? Because our supervisor, I mean, our department head really likes your reports.

And let's say the employee says, OK, well, if you give me a couple more days, then I could do x, y and z to beef it up, and I could attach some additional analysis, and would that work? And now you're in a two way conversation where hopefully, the employee feels respected because you didn't just go confront them and tell them that the report was subpar, and then immediately go to telling them what to do to correct it because that can feel like the employee is being disciplined. They're being talked at, and that can be uncomfortable. We're dealing with adults.

But if you-- in the second example that I gave because I pointed out the deficit piece, but asked the employee why? Gave the benefit of the doubt. And then said, OK, I understand when they gave me their explanation. And said, but we still need to beef this up, what do you think you could do to beef it up? And think about that, folks. If you tell the employee how to fix a problem or how to correct their own performance, it can almost feel like a punitive step. Is that you're correcting them, and that can feel uncomfortable for an employee. But if you give the employee an opportunity to correct it themselves, that's a more respectful way.

To say to the employee, again, if I give you some more time, what could you do to bring this back up to the level of your normal reports, or of the reports you've turned in the past? And then hopefully, the employee is going to come away from that conversation feeling, at least, OK, I need to fix this, but feeling that you respect their capabilities to fix it, and not feeling like they're being talked down to, or they're being corrected.

And think about that, the whole idea of performance management is not to be punitive in any way or not to be overly critical in any way, it's to work with the employee to get them to see-- remember, coaching is about helping people identify what's deficit and working with them, and helping them come up with their own solutions. That's where growth comes from, and that's where ownership comes from. People will tend to be much more motivated to fix something if it's their idea, or to follow through and correct something if they take ownership and what that corrective action should be.

And it's also going to be less uncomfortable because they're not being dictated to or talked at out about it. And so that's what I want us to remember, is to do our best when we're interacting with employees, whether it be correcting performance, correcting subpar performance, or even giving an assignment of work. Folks, and this was something I did wrong for a long time back in the day. I used to be way too hands on in assigning work.

And what I mean by that is I would call an employee and say, hey, I got a project for you, and here's what I need you to do, and here's how I need you to do it. Here's step one, here's step two, here's step three. And I noticed that employees would sometimes feel very uncomfortable or they would act kind of passive. And I realized that-- and I used to wonder why, but then I realized it was my approach that was creating that. I wasn't bringing the employee into the conversation and giving them an opportunity to weigh in on how the work was going to be done.

So now, I try not to do that. So when I bring an employee in to give them an assignment, I'll let them know what the assignment is, and what the scope of it is, and what the deadline is. And then I'll say, what do you think we ought to do to get this work done? What do you think the work plan should be? And I turn the development of the work plan over to the employee. And can weigh in, sure, I can be a part of putting the work plan together, but I think it's really important that we see our employees as the subject matter experts and make them feel good that we're confident in their capability to develop their own work plans.

And then step three would be the back and forth. So let's say if you ask the employee, what they think the work plan should be, and they say a, b, c, and you think to yourself, OK, I think a would work and b, I think would work, but c, don't think will work, and here's why. And step three, that's the back and forth where you try to maybe come up with a compromise way forward, or a way forward you both can support. So let's say the employee says a, b, c, and you say a and b would work, but what about d? What if we did a, b, and d? Could you get behind that? Do you think that would work?

And now you're working together. And think about that, folks. We've all had probably thousands of conversations like this where you talk, the other person talks, and then you go back and forth and try to find a middle ground, or a compromise solution, or whatever the case may be. Now, the key collaboration skill I just shared is called building on ideas. And I know you all do this, you may not have called it building, but from communications theory, building on ideas, of course, is if someone says this is what, I think, we should do.

We don't want to just categorically dismiss their idea because it kind of defeats the purpose if going back to this collaboration model. If you ask the employee what they think we should do to get this job done, or what they think we should do to improve the quality of the work, and they say, again, a, b, c. You don't want to just categorically dismiss that because then it's like, what's the point? Why would we ask them for input and then just not take any of their input at all? That could really be demotivating to the employee.

And so I always try to build on the employee or build on the employees idea, which is to not dismiss their idea, but try to find something in their input, in their suggestion that I can build on with my ideas. And that's what we call building. And since I've learned how to do that, probably about, I don't know, 15, 16, 18 years ago, my interactions with people tend to flow back and forth so much more.

They're more like brainstorming conversations, where someone comes up with something, and I build on it, and then they build on my idea, and we go back and forth. And I know you all do this. Again, you may not have been calling it building, but we do this all the time, in those back and forth, two-way conversations. So just remember, too, if an employee, if you ask them for input, and they give an idea, and you don't love the idea, find something or a part of their idea that you can build on, so the employee feels like, OK, the supervisor, you know, does value at least part of what I'm saying here, and that'll help their confidence and help them, again, feel like they're a part of this.

All right. Just a couple more things to talk about here as we wrap up today because these conversations obviously can be stressful, again. So we need to pick the right times to have them. So if you're having a bad day, and we all have those days, right? Maybe you've had one difficult meeting after another, and now you've got to go meet with an employee that's really difficult to deal with, and you're not up to it right now.

Because remember, folks, when we're stressed, when we're not at our best, it may be really hard to patiently hang in there with someone and have a good two-way conversation. You may consider putting that meeting or that conversation off until you're in a better place. Or if you become sensitive that maybe the employee is not in a good place, maybe they've had a rough day. Or you walk up to them and they have a very stressed look on their face.

Maybe you consider choosing another time to have the conversation because difficult conversations when we're talking to someone about a performance issue, when we're talking to them about some sort of a disagreement that we have, those are stressful conversations. So you want to pick the right time to have those conversations, so that both you and the employee can be the best version of yourselves as you're interacting. Now, of course, it's important to keep our emotions under control too, and so make it a goal. This has become a value to me.

Responding instead of reacting, I tend to be pretty emotional. And so back in the day, I would overreact too much. And what I mean by that is, I would get emotional about something, and then I would end up, being frustrated about something or discouraged about something. And then I would just kind of go with whatever I was feeling in the moment. And sometimes, I would say or do something that wouldn't be very effective because I was just kind of reacting out of emotion. I came to realize that, obviously, our emotions of the moment, and we all have them, we're all emotional beings, they're not necessarily rational, and they're not-- and because emotions are energy.

And if you just react out of the emotion of the moment, we may say or do something, or make a decision that we regret later because we're just reacting to that emotion. We've all heard that term knee jerk reaction. You may just be reacting based on being frustrated in the moment. And all of a sudden you've said something, or done something, or made a decision that you regret later. And so I think it's really important to thoughtfully respond instead of react as best we can.

And that can include-- and what makes that possible is when you find yourself being emotional, let's say you're about to go into a conversation with an employee, and you're frustrated with that employee, and that happens. As supervisors, we get frustrated sometimes with people, especially if they're making the same kinds of mistakes, or they're turning in the same low quality deliverables time and time again, you can start to get really frustrated.

If possible, pause to gather yourself and think before you speak. To me, that's one of the best life skills I've ever learned. And it's part of the whole skill set of emotional intelligence that I know we all know a lot about. So again, if you feel really frustrated with somebody, or you feel really upset with somebody, and you're about to go into that conversation, take a minute and pause. And sometimes a pause is just, go for a walk and think before you speak.

Sometimes a pause is maybe sleep on this because you need to talk to this other person, but right now you're so angry, you're afraid that if you go talk to them now, it's not going to go very well because you need to calm down. But if you pause, you can gather yourself and think before you speak. And then when you go into the interaction with the other person, you can be more calmly. You can respond more calmly and rationally instead of reacting emotionally. I have to be honest, probably the worst interactions I've ever had personally and professionally, have happened at times when I was not in control of my emotions.

I was upset about something, I was angry about something, frustrated, anxious about something, and I just kind of went with it, and I said or did something that was not very effective. And so I've just learned more over the years. And I still make mistakes. I mean, I'm human like the rest of us. I still have emotions like we all do, but I do a better job nowadays of remembering when I'm an emotional to take a step back and calm down, or at least think before I speak or act so that I can be more effective when I decide to move forward.

All right. Last thing we're going to talk about, then I'll open it up for questions, folks. And I really do appreciate everyone staying with us today. We ended up having well over 400 people on the call today. Really appreciate everyone taking their time. I know we're all busy. Is when you get into conflict with anybody, and especially with an employee. And that's going to happen. Folks, conflict looks differently at different times as you all know.

Sometimes conflict looks like an argument. Those are really hard to deal with. Sometimes conflict looks like a disagreement, and those can be uncomfortable. Sometimes conflict is just not being on the same page together, and it's a miscommunication. But I think it's really important to recognize whenever you have some sort of a conflict or a disagreement with an employee or with anybody else for that matter, it's really important that we approach that in an agreeable way.

What I mean by that, I know you all know, you're familiar with the old saying, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Maya Angelou, the poet and author, had a famous quote, I love it, think about it a lot. She said, people will forget what you said and what you've done, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. Folks, if you can go into a difficult conversation in a constructive way, in a argumentative way, in a defensive way, in an escalated way, and it can damage the relationship if we do it that way. It's true.

And so the goal ought to be when we're going into an interaction with someone where there's conflict, disagreement, some sort of a miscommunication, is to go into it as agreeably as possible, which means be respectful. And I love to always go back to the R-E-S-P-E-C-T, respect, the Aretha Franklin song. I just think it's so important to remember that as long as we work through a difficult conversation, respectfully, we may not get on the same page together, we may not be able to agree. Sometimes it's not possible to agree when two people have strongly opposing views or opinions.

But as long as we treat each other respectfully in the conversation, then at the end of that conversation, hopefully, we still-- the relationship is still intact. We're still able to work comfortably together or relate comfortably together because we didn't mistreat each other. We were respectful to each other. And so let's remember that.

Remember folks that be open to each other's opinion during difficult conversations, even if you don't agree. As long as we're respectful, hear the employee out. Where it gets really uncomfortable is if we get argumentative, if we cut the employee off, if we pull rank on them, say, well, I'm the supervisor, we're going to do it this way. I don't like your idea. And now, you may have to make that decision in the end. You may have to say, in this, I'm glad that you explained your opinion. And I honestly am open to the possibility, but in this particular situation, I don't think your suggestion is going to work and here's why.

As long as you handle that in a respectful, calm way with the employee, the employee might not be happy with the outcome, but at the end of the conversation, they will feel like, OK, I'm unhappy I didn't get my way, but my boss treated me respectfully. That's the most important part, is we go away from those conversations still very respectful of one another.

All right, folks, I know I covered a lot in a very, very short period of time today. I want to open up for questions. If you have any questions, please type them into the question box in the GoToWebinar software, which you'll find on your screen, and I will get to as many questions as time allows today. Please remember we have well over 400. Now, we're over 450 people on the call today, so we probably won't be able to get to everyone's questions, but I commit to getting to as many as I can.

All right. Here's a good first question. How should a manager respond to an employee that accuses the manager of being a micromanager when really all you are doing is holding them accountable? Examples would be holding them accountable for the amount of work production or the employee constantly being tardy. This is being perceived as micromanaging, do you have any scripting that would be a good way to respond to this? That's a really, really good question. And there are times honestly, there are times when a supervisor is just trying to hold the employee accountable, or trying to make sure that they're doing the job that they need to do.

And the employee may not like it. They may not like having their feet held to the fire, like the saying goes or being-- they may be uncomfortable feeling held accountable. Now, we need to find a way as a supervisor to hold the employee accountable in a good, respectful way, but as long as we're being respectful in how we're having those conversations, the employee needs to be open to working with us.

I mean, they need to follow our lead. I mean, that's our responsibility as a supervisor to make sure that their performance is what-- that the employee's performance is what it needs to be. And so if you feel like you're being respectful to the employee and you feel like the employee is not-- are complaining about your style and you don't feel like you're micromanaging, I would just be honest about that and say, I honestly don't feel like I'm micromanaging here.

I'm just trying to-- and stick to the facts if you can instead of the style. Stick to the facts is that, these three things that we've been talking about, we've talked about multiple times still aren't happening consistently. And we need to have them happen consistently, as we've been talking about, in order for performance to be up to par. And so all I'm trying to do here is to hold you accountable to meet these three standards.

And I'm open to your ideas if you have some alternative ideas for ways to meet the standards. As long as the standards are met, I'm open to it. That would be something you might want to consider when you're-- because think about that if you give the employee some input, if possible, I know sometimes it won't be completely possible. There may only be one way to do a certain thing, but if you can give the employee some input, a lot of times they'll feel, at least, like they have a say and they'll be a little bit more amenable to working with you, but I hope that helps. Thank you.

All right. Got lots of great questions coming in. All right. What do you do if it's a continuous issue? No matter what you do, it's wrong, and have to do it again. And the next day you get, I'm sorry, I should have handled it differently, again. For repeat offenses like that, and obviously-- well, let me share this in two steps.

The first step is, I believe in coaching people and giving them multiple chances within reason, unless what they're doing is some sort of a grievous, breaking of a policy. That if someone just they're doing some things wrong, and I'm trying to coach them, and get them to bring their performance up to the standard, or to meet the expectation f your organization. And let's say this is the third or fourth time I've had the conversation with them.

At that point in time, if you feel like the employee is just not complying, at that point I would probably take a look at your progressive discipline. And you need to make that decision, right? When you need to think about that, but take a look at your progressive discipline policy within your organization. I think it's important. If you're thinking about using that, I think it's important to loop in your supervisor, loop in human resources to get their opinion about that, and make sure that, however, this next steps you take with that employee are in compliance with that. I think that's important.

But that next conversation I would have with the employee if it were me, again, keeping in mind that we all our organizations may all have a different set of steps to follow for progressive discipline. I would say something along the lines of, we've talked about this three times, and you're not changing, you're not making the adjustment that you're committing to make.

You tell me that you're sorry, but then you're going back and doing it incorrectly again. And I have to be honest, I'm getting frustrated. And this is performance that has to be at a certain level. I mean, as you know, the expectation for our organization is you do it a certain way. And that's why I've been had so many conversations with you about it, we've got to get you up to the right level of performance in this area. I mean, it's not an option. And so it's part of your job responsibility.

And so I'm at the point where I'm frustrated. I just want to let you know that, I'm going to give you another chance here. But if you can't meet the standard or you don't want to meet the standard, the next step would be some sort of progressive discipline where I may have to give you a verbal or a written warning. And I oftentimes will say to employee, and I would rather not do that, I would much rather just work with you informally and just have you comply, and get your performance up to the required level.

But I just want to make you aware that if you're not going to do that, and I hope you will, the next step is going to be some sort of progressive discipline. So I would lead into that with that kind of language. I hope that helps. Thank you. First, we have a ton of questions today, and I'm sorry that I'm not going to be able to get to as many as I would like to. OK, generational differences in terms of work attire. Staff has been informed what is acceptable and what is not, but continues to look unprofessional. Like, for example, hoodie and tennis shoes, provide script ideas.

I appreciate you asking that. Now, again, you have to certainly follow. The trouble with trying to answer some of these questions generally, is I'm not exactly sure what your standards are in your workplace. But I can be general in how I would answer that. Again, I would be talking with the employee just about these are the expectations, make sure they have a copy of the written policy, and then talk it through with them a couple of times.

Can we talk about some examples of what would be acceptable and what wouldn't be acceptable? And to say, for example, a hoodie is not acceptable. And we talked about that the last time, and just let me go through the policy with you one more time, please. Sweatshirts and hoodies are not acceptable in the workplace, we just-- that's too dressed down. And so we're trying to be-- we want to have a collar shirt. OK, we want to have khaki pants. And I'm just giving, being very general, hypothetically, of course. And we don't want to wear sneakers, we want to wear loafers or some sort of shoe, footwear that's more of a shoe.

And I think we should consider that actually really kind of a nice, comfortable dress code because there are a lot of work that I would try to compare it that way I'd say because there's a lot of workplaces where the standards are more formal where you have to wear dress pants or there's some work workplaces that say you have to wear a tie every day, and those kinds of things. And we're fortunate enough to have a relaxed standard, but we can't go below that, so I need you to be comfortable.